Yep, I was referring to the $20K turn-key price. Which is still very attractive since its a brand new engine and is factory turbocharged.

Not sure how the oiling does, with it mounted longitudinally. Maybe there's a pan for that.

There was some catch, though. Maybe it was lack of AC or cruise control or something. I need both those things. Not sure how anyone else feels about it. I know its not emissions legal either.

In IL, I'm sure that a K24A swap with Hondata would be emissions passable.

 

The catch is lack of AC AND the OEM dash will not work. Both quite the bummer IMO, as anyone whose driven a CTR in anger knows the motor is fantastic out of the box.

 

you can also try JDM engines chicago and see what hey have to offer. From what I remember they do ship and offer a warranty on all engines. You may want to ask if they will still honor it if you do the work yourself. I would also not purchase anything till the car is 100% ready to have the new engine installed. that way you can take action sooner than later if anything does go wrong.

 

The only 2 good options you have are to spend the $ on a low milage engine or to go all out on a build. Both will end up costing you about the same when it is all said and done.

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm in Bend Oregon (now) so emissions are a non issue. I DO want A/C and the dash to work. I could live without cruise control. I'm not very knowledgable about the K24/K20 swap details other than there are vendors out selling parts/kits to make it happen.

I understand how B Serious strongly suggests I buy an unopened (hopefully, but I wouldn't know) used F22C motor like the one he previously referenced on Ebay with 98k (?) miles. Obviously the $6k question plus shipping is what condition is it in? I'd assume a compression test or leak down test isn't done prior to selling the engine, so it's basically somewhat of a crap shoot and buyer beware, etc.

As far as the engines assembled in Japan with new parts, my OEM short block purchased for over $6k at the time failed catastrophically in less that 900 miles. It was broken in properly and not abused in any way during those 900 miles - I was too paranoid after the previous OEM engine failure. I did have an aftermarket pressure plate, but no one can convince me that that the PP could cause this level of damage in 900 miles of normal break in driving - I don't ride the clutch or leave it in at stop lights, etc. So in my opinion, the short block was assembled or stored improperly. They look to still be available for a steep price, but I'm not going down that road again.

I have a neighbor who is an ex NASA machinist with access to top notch measuring devices. I'm strongly leaning toward taking on the rebuild (after I confidently determine that 4 of my 8 pistons/rods and that one of my two cranks are within spec.

I have 8 pistons that have no size marking, so I interpret that as size A per the SM. If I bought a new OEM block, I'd want it to be marked AAAA so I wouldn't have to change out any pistons.

Per my original post, does anyone (Billman?) does anyone have experience with these blocks and the cylinder sizes they typically come with (A or B)? It would suck if I bought a BBBB block and had to replace all four pistons.

 

The leakdown numbers for the 98K engine I linked are written on the engine. The numbers with % signs on them.

It looks like a healthy engine.

The aftermarket oil filter tells me it was likely owned by someone who just...drove it. And had their maintenance done at a shop. This probably means its had minmal amount of things that were messed with. Since these cars are so low maintenance, someone probably did...just maintenance.

If it were me...that's what I'd be looking for. A healthy, factory assembled engine driven by some pleb.

 

The last few years have turned up quite a few examples of people who bought new old stock engines from Honda and had issues with them. You can search and find the stories. I don't know if a common thread was found between them. I'd generally agree that your PP is not the root cause.

Though it feels dumb to buy a 98k mile engine for a stupid price, it has generally been agreed that the factory assembled ones are better bets than rebuilds. That's why they maintain so much value. If the community accepted rebuilds, used engines would be cheaper. My personal opinion is that people overstate the failure rate of well done rebuilds. However, they do seem to fail at a much higher rate than other Honda engines and the "well done" aspect seems to be harder due to the amount of care, materials, and time that was put into assembling the facotory engines. Also, since the new old stock had issues, you can make an argument that an engine that has been running regularly up until recently is a better bet. No guarantees but B Serious's logic is a rational way of thought. Until the last 2 years when prices of used engines have doubled and mileages have gone up since low mileage cars aren't going to junk yards when wrecked, the calculus is in question. It used to be considered common wisdom. Leakdown test is the best indicator you're going to get.

 

If you got a B only block, you're a lucky man, that's the tighter bore of the two, the most friendly to a nice hone job. Most blocks are A blocks, A pistons may work on a used B block as it may have worn just enough to accept the A pistons. If you check the service manual, the tightest you can have the piston to wall clearance is .0002"

B bore is 87mm at it's tightest factory setting, a fresh A bore is 87.02, and the service limit for bore wear is 87.1 combined taper and piston to wall clearance wear. If your bore is less than 87.1 it's ok to reassemble. Honing takes off .02mm, the difference between the smallest B piston and largest A piston is .023mm
If you measure and assemble the engine properly, assuming the parts are within spec, there's no reason for the block not to last until it reaches the bore wear limit.


This presentation is very informative with regards to cylinder finish.

 

Thanks for clarifying. I plan to measure my eight A pistons and see where they are at. Assuming at least 4 of them are still within spec and I buy a new block, it sounds like even if it had one or more B size cylinders that I could hone them to accept in spec A pistons. Do I have that right? If so, is the hone job one that any reputablr machine shop with the SM manual instructions should be able tqo do? Thanks for your patience with me.

 

Thanks for clarifying the leakdown numbers. I read 6, 10, 10 and 8%. From a quick Google search those seem like good numbers. I appreciate you identifying this engine and I agree with your assessment that there may very well be less risk with this approach. An added benefit is that i would have lots of spare parts down the road if needed.

Wow, there are quite a few used AP2 engines for sale from this ebay seller and a few others. I need a DBW version of which there are still several to pick from. Seems like for a similar price, I should pick based on lowest stated leakdown % as long as other pics don't reveal any issues. Has anyone bought from this seller before with good long term results on a entire used engine purchase?