Hi, so basically my engine spun a bearing, so I'm going to need to rebuild or get a new longblock and swap anyways...

So I have the 01' AP1, and I was thinking of swapping in an 05' AP2 f22c.
My motor only has <50k on it btw.

1. What modifications are needed from a straight longblock swap, to do this safely and spin up to 9k RPMs?
How "safe" will it be? Just as safe as an AP1 f20c?
I've heard all that is needed is an early AP1 (00' or 01') ECU, and since my car is MY01 I already have that... so I thought I would be set according to what I've read... just trying to see if I missed anything.

2. What are the advantages of the f22c over the f20c?
I would assume the f22c doesn't chug oil like the f20c, right? And I know it makes a bit more power and torque and the curves are better, but is there anything else?

3. What are the advantages of the AP2 tranny over the AP1 tranny? Is it worth the extra money to go ahead and swap that too even though I don't really need it? What modifications are needed to swap the AP2 tranny into an AP1 (with the f22c)?


Ugh, this is really giving me a headache. Basically to sum it up, I'm trying to do this as smart as possible. I don't have much money, and I would prefer to just rebuild it since it would be cheaper, but I'm afraid if I do I'll just be looking at similar problems again in the near future and will wish I would have gone through with the swap.

I just can't decide if the extra money now is worth it, and if that extra money will prevent future problems, and be better overall and thus be worth the money now and possibly save me time/money/headache in the future...

Help?

Thanks...
-Will

 

Note: I am not an expert on this, however I over-revved my AP1 and had the same swap done as you have.

As far as I know, so long as you stay with the pre drive by wire engines, the wiring harness and sensors are all the same, so it's just plug and play.

Though rated the same, it's pretty well accepted that the F22's are putting out just a bit more power and more mid-range torque. I do recall though seeing a post where the torque curve doesn't change as much in this kind of swap as comparing an AP1 and AP2, probably because the AP1 ECU calling the shots.

You CAN rev it to 9k (or 9,200) but it certainly isn't going to be the best idea for engine longevity. It's simple math that the already high piston speeds are going to be increased. I don't know if there's much empirical evidence out there on this topic, merely speculation.

When I track my car I typically try to shift @ 8,500 don't rev it to 9k on every straight, there's no need to. However I do know I have that extra 500 rpm or so that I'll allow myself to use if, say, there's a corner where you don't want to shift for, just to downshift right away (whereas in a pure AP2, you'd just bounce it off the rev limiter).

Stick with the AP1 tranny if you're not having problems. That seems to be the preferred setup anyway.

 

Still not sure on this... someone convince me...

 

Been running my hard for 1.5 years as described above with no problems. I regularly run it to the rev limiter as there are some corners where I can now do that rather than have the 'to shift or to not shift' self-debate.

There are I'm sure plenty of little incremental improvements having the F22c will give you, including as I understand it a slightly stouter head and valve springs.

As for the tranny, stick with the AP1 seems to be the common opinion. Though the synchros, particularly in 2nd, were beefed up in the AP2 trans, the ratios are different and just from reading the forums, talking to people, etc. the (general) preferred setup for track and AutoX appears to be F22c with AP1 Trans (those who are really in the know please feel free to correct me).

I'm not sure if the ratio change in the AP2 trans was to better match the v-tech rev range, or to keep the 0-60 numbers where Honda wanted them.

In either case I'd still go with the F22c as your replacement.

** Holy old post ... self! I guess I need to learn how to use the forums, or read dates.

 

^ Im sure the info is more relevant now anyhow since more people will be in his shoes now than back then anyway because the AP1s are getting so

My own personal AP1 has the F22 engine and AP1 tranny combo with the F20 ecu. I swapped quite recently and I'm really happy with the combination.

My car http://www.flickr.com/photos/evanandmonica/6182688689/http://www.flickr.com/photos/evanandmonica/6182688689/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/evanandmonica/, on Flickr

F22 (gold sparkplug cover= F22)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/evanandmonica/6161077975/http://www.flickr.com/photos/evanandmonica/6161077975/ by http://www.flickr.com/people/evanandmonica/, on Flickr
^ its the only pic I have after the swap, that has the hood up

Evan @ Forged

 

Get a used f20c and have it boosted while its still out of the car... Easier to do

 

Lol this thread is really old guys...

I did end up swapping in an F22c (stayed with AP1 transmission though) and I love it!

Doesn't drink oil like the F20c did and now that I'm boosted I'm sure it makes slightly more HP per PSI.

 

I know this is ancient. I immediately recognized my error.

Loving my F22c transplant, and as the F20c was due to an over-rev and I have a NEW untouched AP2 head on the shelf as well, I've got a nice FI project on the slow burn ..... for when I ruin another engine

 

Hello, I'm in a predicament...

My car is blowing blue smoke and i think i have bad o-rings and what not....

I'm at war with either doing a rebuild or buying a new(used) motor...

I have an 2001 Ap1 S2000...

What is the best route? rebuilding the whole engine and bore-ing it out w/ bigger pistons or getting a new motor?

If i were to get a new motor should i get the AP1 or AP2 motor? and if I get the AP2 motor would i need a new ECU and wiring harness?

Thanks

 

As stated above, multiple times, no.