FEELS 2.3L kit for s2000!!!!!!!
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,582
Likes: 4
From: CA
Originally posted by JoeD
with a very low price at just under $4,150!
hmmm...SpeedCraft turbo kit, FEEL's stroker kit, custom 8.5:1 pistons, 15 psi, head work, cams, ECU....can you say "Fastest S2000 on Earth?"
with a very low price at just under $4,150!
hmmm...SpeedCraft turbo kit, FEEL's stroker kit, custom 8.5:1 pistons, 15 psi, head work, cams, ECU....can you say "Fastest S2000 on Earth?"
P.S. JoeD is that a E420 in your sig?
Banned
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,152
Likes: 0
From: Austin
Originally posted by s2kpunisher
Is it just me or is $4k+ is high for 30ish hp gain?
Is it just me or is $4k+ is high for 30ish hp gain?
You really need to know what the components are. If they are strengthened, then redline can at least be maintained, plus you have gains throughout the powerband. From a 1/4 mile stand point, I wouldn't be surprised if this compared with a Comptech Supercharger as far as times go.
Another possibility is that the kit actually has something insane like titanium components (which, at this price, would not surprise me). If so, with an upgraded valvetrain, you could probably handle ~10k RPMs. I might be totally off, but I don't think so...
Now would be a good time to hear from ultimate lurker!
Blake
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 1
From: Fort Worth
There is no replacement for displacement, short of efficiency.
My guess, from the pics and info presented, is that these are straight stroker kits. My guess is that they have modified the crank, rods, and pistons to provide the most displacement w/o boring out at all. Maybe not.
The big issue to be concerned about is the rod/stroke ratio and the change in how the forces are going to act on the pistons and rods. Right now the motor is designed to spin at 10,000+ RPMs safely. It would take knowing exactly what they have done with the bottom end geometry to identify how it might affect how the engine will rev and what it can safely rev to.
My guess, from the pics and info presented, is that these are straight stroker kits. My guess is that they have modified the crank, rods, and pistons to provide the most displacement w/o boring out at all. Maybe not.
The big issue to be concerned about is the rod/stroke ratio and the change in how the forces are going to act on the pistons and rods. Right now the motor is designed to spin at 10,000+ RPMs safely. It would take knowing exactly what they have done with the bottom end geometry to identify how it might affect how the engine will rev and what it can safely rev to.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 1
From: You wish
If this is a straight stroker kit, I'd have some concerns. Here's why.
To get 2.3 liters with a stroker kit, the stroke has to go from 84mm to 96-97mm. What sorts of engines have strokes like that? How about the K24 from the CRV. It has a 99 mm stroke. Honda sets the redline on that engine at 6500 rpm. Its probably safe to over 7000 rpm, and with better parts, maybe higher, but its still not a high rpm engine that will live a normal lifespan if you rev it high.
With a stroke that long, the rod/stroke ratio will go way down. Stock, we have a 152-153mm rod If we increase the stroke to 96mm, the rod length must go down. If piston design remains the same, it would decrease to 140mm, giving a rod ratio of 1.45. You could probably mess around with piston pin height and make the rod 5-10mm longer. Lets be optimistic and say you got a whole 10mm more (unlikely unless you went to a 2 ring design on the piston vs. 3 ring). That would give you a rod/stroke ratio of 1.56. That's about the same rod ratio as the B18C from Honda. That engine will spin to 8500-8800 rpm very reliably - but it will need a new ring job every 40k-50k miles if you work it hard. However, the B18C only has an 87.2 mm stroke. A stroker F20C will have higher piston speeds and accelerations.
What you have to understand about rod, stroke and rpm is this. The smaller the rod/stroke ratio, the more sideloading you put on the rings and cylinder bores. This increases both friction and wear. Additionally, smaller rod/stroke ratios increase initial acceleration away from TDC. Acceleration is what destroys parts (not piston speed). In the case of a stroker kit, you're increasing piston speed by 12% and decreasing rod/stroke ratio dramatically. Even if you lowered your rpm by 12% to keep piston speed down, the decrease in rod stroke ratio will still leave you with overall increased acceleration and side loadings.
The upside of a long stroke, short rod combo is that you can really make some nice midrange torque, more than you would expect from just the displacement increase. So you could see some really nice daily driving improvements with such a kit. The downside is that you can overwhelm the ports (really the valve area) in terms of airflow at higher rpms becasue your flow velocity gets so high.
In terms of cost, this kit does not seem like it would have really expensive parts. A decent crank manufacturered in small volumes will run a minimum of $1500. A good piston and rod package is another $1200-$1500 retail. Then add in all the littel miscellany and you get close to a $4000 price. No titanium here IMO.
Ohh, BTW, when was the last time anyone saw a 2.3 liter I4 without a balance shaft? Something else to think about.
UL
To get 2.3 liters with a stroker kit, the stroke has to go from 84mm to 96-97mm. What sorts of engines have strokes like that? How about the K24 from the CRV. It has a 99 mm stroke. Honda sets the redline on that engine at 6500 rpm. Its probably safe to over 7000 rpm, and with better parts, maybe higher, but its still not a high rpm engine that will live a normal lifespan if you rev it high.
With a stroke that long, the rod/stroke ratio will go way down. Stock, we have a 152-153mm rod If we increase the stroke to 96mm, the rod length must go down. If piston design remains the same, it would decrease to 140mm, giving a rod ratio of 1.45. You could probably mess around with piston pin height and make the rod 5-10mm longer. Lets be optimistic and say you got a whole 10mm more (unlikely unless you went to a 2 ring design on the piston vs. 3 ring). That would give you a rod/stroke ratio of 1.56. That's about the same rod ratio as the B18C from Honda. That engine will spin to 8500-8800 rpm very reliably - but it will need a new ring job every 40k-50k miles if you work it hard. However, the B18C only has an 87.2 mm stroke. A stroker F20C will have higher piston speeds and accelerations.
What you have to understand about rod, stroke and rpm is this. The smaller the rod/stroke ratio, the more sideloading you put on the rings and cylinder bores. This increases both friction and wear. Additionally, smaller rod/stroke ratios increase initial acceleration away from TDC. Acceleration is what destroys parts (not piston speed). In the case of a stroker kit, you're increasing piston speed by 12% and decreasing rod/stroke ratio dramatically. Even if you lowered your rpm by 12% to keep piston speed down, the decrease in rod stroke ratio will still leave you with overall increased acceleration and side loadings.
The upside of a long stroke, short rod combo is that you can really make some nice midrange torque, more than you would expect from just the displacement increase. So you could see some really nice daily driving improvements with such a kit. The downside is that you can overwhelm the ports (really the valve area) in terms of airflow at higher rpms becasue your flow velocity gets so high.
In terms of cost, this kit does not seem like it would have really expensive parts. A decent crank manufacturered in small volumes will run a minimum of $1500. A good piston and rod package is another $1200-$1500 retail. Then add in all the littel miscellany and you get close to a $4000 price. No titanium here IMO.
Ohh, BTW, when was the last time anyone saw a 2.3 liter I4 without a balance shaft? Something else to think about.
UL
