Ground-up Gears!
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 31
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From: Palo Alto
I was hoping to get some feed-back on the surprise my Honda tech just gave me.
BACKGROUND: My S2000 is a 2001 that I purchased just over a year ago and has only 10,000 miles on it. I admit that I drive it hard and have put on the track one day. I have historically experienced the infamous 1-to-2 gear grind (perhaps 8-9 times in total over the 1 year-period). The majority of those 8-9 times happening lately (i.e., it was starting to get worse in my view). I am careful when I shift and have NEVER, EVER: (1) ground any other gears other than the 1-to-2 grind; nor (2) let any other person drive the car.
YESTERDAY: After being fed-up with the worsening grind, I took it to Honda for service. I wanted them to do the TSB 00-055 work to try and fix it. I took the tech on a test-drive to reproduce it and to my surprise, I actually managed to reproduce (with my foot firmly all the way down on the clutch). I do realize that if you baby the shifts and get the revs right you will not do the grind. Also, the shift I did to reproduce the grind for the tech is NOT the way I usually drive. To make a long story short, the Tech approved the work (among a number of other items that I may get into another time), and they began to pull out the transmission yesterday afternoon.
PROBLEM: So I get a call from the tech, who tells me that "all of the lower gears are ground" and that the "only possible cause of this is DRIVER ABUSE!" Well, you can imagine how upset I get. Let me repeat, I drive my car hard (like it is supposed to); however, don't shift without properly engaging the clutch, I get my car serviced at at least twice as often as Honda's heavy-use recommendation, I never push it until the car is warm, and have never ground any gear except the 1-to-2 grind. In other words, I baby it!
QUESTION: 1) Does anyone know how all my lower gears could be ground in such a way that it looks like driver abuse? 2) Has this happened to anyone else? 3) Could the wear come from aggresive down-shifting where revs are not 100% matched?
THE GOOD NEWS: Despite the abuse assertions, the tech was very good and they offered to, and are, fixing all of it under warranty.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
Elton
BACKGROUND: My S2000 is a 2001 that I purchased just over a year ago and has only 10,000 miles on it. I admit that I drive it hard and have put on the track one day. I have historically experienced the infamous 1-to-2 gear grind (perhaps 8-9 times in total over the 1 year-period). The majority of those 8-9 times happening lately (i.e., it was starting to get worse in my view). I am careful when I shift and have NEVER, EVER: (1) ground any other gears other than the 1-to-2 grind; nor (2) let any other person drive the car.
YESTERDAY: After being fed-up with the worsening grind, I took it to Honda for service. I wanted them to do the TSB 00-055 work to try and fix it. I took the tech on a test-drive to reproduce it and to my surprise, I actually managed to reproduce (with my foot firmly all the way down on the clutch). I do realize that if you baby the shifts and get the revs right you will not do the grind. Also, the shift I did to reproduce the grind for the tech is NOT the way I usually drive. To make a long story short, the Tech approved the work (among a number of other items that I may get into another time), and they began to pull out the transmission yesterday afternoon.
PROBLEM: So I get a call from the tech, who tells me that "all of the lower gears are ground" and that the "only possible cause of this is DRIVER ABUSE!" Well, you can imagine how upset I get. Let me repeat, I drive my car hard (like it is supposed to); however, don't shift without properly engaging the clutch, I get my car serviced at at least twice as often as Honda's heavy-use recommendation, I never push it until the car is warm, and have never ground any gear except the 1-to-2 grind. In other words, I baby it!
QUESTION: 1) Does anyone know how all my lower gears could be ground in such a way that it looks like driver abuse? 2) Has this happened to anyone else? 3) Could the wear come from aggresive down-shifting where revs are not 100% matched?
THE GOOD NEWS: Despite the abuse assertions, the tech was very good and they offered to, and are, fixing all of it under warranty.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
Elton
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,210
Likes: 7
From: WA
My guess is that he really does not know what he is looking at. I have had dozens of grinds (after the TSB fix) and the last time the box was open (for a fourth gear fix) Honda declined to re-do the TSB because they observed no signs of gears grinding.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 1
From: Fort Worth
That's also a pretty subjective analysis. He could show you the gears and say "Here, look, see- these are ground." Without a fresh set to show you you won't be able to tell one way or another.
All the gears (or more appropriately, the synchros) will wear some. If he's comparing them to fresh ones he will definitely see a difference!
All the gears (or more appropriately, the synchros) will wear some. If he's comparing them to fresh ones he will definitely see a difference!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,729
Likes: 2
Obviously the gears would be. That's why you brought the car in.
It's his job to make sure it doesn't get worse while repairing any major damage. He was trying to get you to say something.
Remember, the dealerships get paid by AHM to do these service bulletins. They really shouldn't mind.
It's his job to make sure it doesn't get worse while repairing any major damage. He was trying to get you to say something.
Remember, the dealerships get paid by AHM to do these service bulletins. They really shouldn't mind.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 31
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From: Palo Alto
UPDATE!!!!!!
Thanks for your replies guys. Well, the work is done and the car is running great. THE NEW PROBLEM IS THE FOLLOWING:
Upon arriving at the dealership to pick up the car, I review the print-out of the work done. The print-out states: "Removed transmission and replaced gear set and bearings - Test drove and ok at this time -- this is a 1 time goodwill warrany due to misuse/abuse."
Can you believe this!!!!! They are trying to screw me on the warranty. To make a long story short, I am protesting this being inserted into my record. Can you imagine when I try to sell the car what a potential buyer might think!! They tell me that the Honda America rep came by and inspected the car and he insisted that this be put in the record! Is this true? Anyone else have this kind of thing happen?
I am not going to mention the name of the dealership; however, those in the Bay Area will easily be able to guess which one it is. The service manager is currently reviewing the file and will speak to Honda. He said that he intends to try and get the above accusation/statement reviewed. If this does not get resolved to my satisfaction, I will be specifically flaming the dealership in my next posting.
Elton
Thanks for your replies guys. Well, the work is done and the car is running great. THE NEW PROBLEM IS THE FOLLOWING:
Upon arriving at the dealership to pick up the car, I review the print-out of the work done. The print-out states: "Removed transmission and replaced gear set and bearings - Test drove and ok at this time -- this is a 1 time goodwill warrany due to misuse/abuse."
Can you believe this!!!!! They are trying to screw me on the warranty. To make a long story short, I am protesting this being inserted into my record. Can you imagine when I try to sell the car what a potential buyer might think!! They tell me that the Honda America rep came by and inspected the car and he insisted that this be put in the record! Is this true? Anyone else have this kind of thing happen?
I am not going to mention the name of the dealership; however, those in the Bay Area will easily be able to guess which one it is. The service manager is currently reviewing the file and will speak to Honda. He said that he intends to try and get the above accusation/statement reviewed. If this does not get resolved to my satisfaction, I will be specifically flaming the dealership in my next posting.
Elton
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