[quote name='ultimate lurker' date='Feb 17 2005, 02:01 AM'] The J's motor is insanely expensive for the relative power you get.

 

You can't include the price of the AEM EMS in the discussion because the J's engine doesn't include an ECU either. And believe me, you won't be making 300 hp on the stock ECU. Both cars will still need intake, header, exhaust, intake manifold, etc.

So you're looking at a $2500 savings and you could probably get the thing warranteed by Honda if anything happened

With respect to Terd's question:

David's car put down 257.5 whp on my Dynapack. The average 350Z puts down 254 whp. The best Acura TL (stock) I ever dyno'd put down 242 whp. The average is around 238 whp. A stock 2.0 liter S2000, depending upon year, averaged 212-217 whp. Stock 2.2's are averaging 238 whp. Joe Alaniz's 2.0 race motor he built for us last year made 262 whp. If we could port the intake manifold and use a bigger throttle body David's car would make at least 8-10 hp more. I've got some dyno charts I can email to someone if they want to post them.

UL

 

You can send them my way and I'll post them for you.

smoky_ostrich@yahoo.com

 

[quote name='ultimate lurker' date='Feb 17 2005, 09:29 AM'] You can't include the price of the AEM EMS in the discussion because the J's engine doesn't include an ECU either.

 

Don't make assumptions. I was racing cars and motorcyles when you were 3 years old. I know all about dynos and the differences between them. I know all about the variances that can occur with respect to humidity, engine temp., ambient temp., etc. I know all about the variances between dynos of the same brand. Dynos are a tool. They give specific information on a given car at a given moment in time. It may be totally different tomorrow even with the same car and dyno.

With that being said, different dyno brands and different cars can be compared to some extent. A Dynojet reads 10 to 15% higher than a Mustang dyno. A Dynapack reads even higher than that. With these factors taken into consideration, you can compare dyno results to a limited extent. Which is what we are doing.

 

While Hytek products are of very high quality and sometimes expensive, this piece you are refering to was a one off custom fabrication piece. With respect to the conversation about JDM parts we were having, its like I said, there are no domestic products available that are better at what they do and cheaper. I still dare someone to show me I am wrong about this one. When I make this statement, I am not taking into account motor building services. There are numerous, reputable engine builders in the US doing incredible work. I will not argue that. But, there are no alternatives domestically to an in stock off the shelf S 2000 crate motor such as J's, Spoon, Feel's, etc.

 

Do you honestly think they have shelves full of these motor ready to go? I'll bet you dollars to yen they are build to order or Just In Time.

 

I only included the AEM in the figures because it was used to gain the claimed horsepower. Who knows what power either engine would make on a stock ECU (if it would run)?

My point was that people just can't make the "Oh well the J's puts out 300ps because it is *probably* using their computer / bolt ons" argument when the US competition is using a fully programmable EMS to get their ~300 hp.

My point is that most of the argument is conjecture on both sides and as much as I'd like to see a shoot out on an engine dyno under controlled conditions (and similar bolt on set ups) between the US guys and the likes of J's, Amuse, and Toda. Its not going to happen.

Call it blind faith or stupidity, I don't much care. But if we were to bring all these big boys together and have such a contest all playing under the same rules I'd put my money on J's, Amuse, or Toda.

But until we do set up such a contest, I think the internet arguments comparing apples and oranges and assuming this and that are pointless

With that said I have a great deal of respect for the US guys and the work they're doing. When I choose my products I choose the highest quality I can get at the best price. In carbon fiber hoods for example, the win clearly goes to Japan. In the engine building department, well the jury is still out for me

 

Ok, so what do you think J's used to get their claim? It wasn't the stock ECU so maybe you should be putting in the cost of a J's ECU too.

Me thinks you just put it in to make the costs closer to support your argument.

No one knows some hidden secret and has some advantage over someone else. If you buy the J's motor it will probably be very good and produce good power within the limits of a 2 or 2.2L motor. And you can just order and pay for it, and a few months later a crate motor will be delivered with a blue rocker cover.

My only argument is, with a small amount of effort on your part (sourcing an engine new or used in good nick and delivering to a local reputable builder) you can have exactly the same for a lot less money and support a local industry. And get any colour valve cover you like.

There really seems to be a theme int he JDM tuning world that car modification is 'part with a wad of money, bolt on 50 hp and a brand name'. Maybe I'm old school, but to me tuning is about research, knowledge, hands-on work and minimal dollars spent.

At the end of the day we both end up with more hp (hopefully), but I also get more knowledge and experience and satisfaction out of being an integral part of the process. YMMV

 

According to J's site, you get valve and port grinding too. You also get their valve cover, oil cap, oil filter lock (which is very trick), and oil pan. Thier price on their site for the 2 liter is 498000 yen with exchange.

This is still a good deal for a hand assembled and balanced motor, I don't care what anyone says.


http://www.jsracing.co.jp/
Go to S 2000, then on the pull down menu, select engine parts to see more details.

Oh yeah, make it easy on yourself and select english. The translations alone are worth the visit.