I have a question regarding timing... How important is lining up the black/colored chain links to punch mark crank and cam sprockets when setting timing?

I'm putting together a motor and the service manual says (when the timing chain cover is off) to set the crankshaft sprocket so that the #1 piston is at TDC. After which you're supposed to install the timing chain with colored links lined up with punch mark on the crankshaft gear, which should also is line up with an embossed pointer on the block itself. Next install the timing chain cover and crack pulley. Once the head is on, you then are supposed to have the white mark on the crank pulley lined up w/ the pointer on the timing chain cover which is TDC. The scribes/marks on the cam chain sprocket are supposed to be level/parallel to the head, and a colored link is supposed to line up w/ a punch mark on the cam chain sprocket. Then you install the cams making sure the marks on int/exh cam gears are also at TDC.

The machine shop forgot to install the oil jets in my block when they did some work on it, so I took off the oil pan and installed the jets. When doing so, I had to rotate the crank to get access to the oil jet bolts and so both the oil pump chain and the timing chain got rotated. The head was not installed on the motor at this point, but the timing cover/chain guides/and crank pulley were installed on the block. I have no idea if the timing chain got misaligned or skipped a tooth when I was rotating the crank, or if the those color links got misaligned on the crank sprocket.

I'm about to install the head and don't want to have to pull the crank pulley and timing cover off to check and see if the colored timing chain links are still aligned w/ the punch mark on the crank sprocket if I don't need to. I don't see why colored links lining up with the punch marks on the crank sprocket or the cam sprocket are important at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that should matter is that the crank pulley & #1 piston is at TDC; and so are the cam/idler sprocket and cam gears, and that all timing marks line up. I don't see why it matters what link position the chain goes on the sprockets, or why the colored links lining up w/ the punch marks on the crank or cam sprockets matter at all.

Can someone explain if the position of the colored chain links with punch marks on the crank and cam sprocket matter? Can I just install the head as long as the #1 piston is at TDC when the white mark on the crank pulley lines up w/ the pointer on the timing cover; and the timing marks on the cam sprocket and cam gears all line up, regardless of where the colored chain links are positioned??? Or do I need to take off the timing cover and recheck everything? Thanks.

 

I've never done this but if I did I'd comply with the instructions in the Service Manual.

If it "didn't matter" there would not be a specific procedure.

-- Chuck

 

The colored links DO NOT matter, guaranteed. They are helpful for some during setup, but are not necessary to use.

Align your white pointer, and camwheel to head marks, and your cams.

 

Thanks Billman, I figured the colored links didn't matter. I went ahead and proceeded with the install and used a Ballade adjustable timing chain gear and tct, I also used the oem cams and my oem timing chain with 30k miles on it, but my cams seem to be slightly off and I have no idea why. i tried fiddling with the position of the cams but had no luck and stopped there. I haven't rotated the crank or done a valve job yet, since i'm not at perfect TDC yet.

I tried uploading pics to this post but it wouldn't work so I made a new post and I also had question about how to get rid of old fuel in the gas tank. I've pasted the link below to my new post with the pics of my timing issues and question about the fuel. Can you please take a look and let me know what to do. I desperately need to get this car running ASAP and I value your knowledge/experience.

Here's the link to my new post:

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-un...-fuel-1188349/

 

 

No, the timing chain is not new. I reused my OEM timing chain which had around 35k miles on it. The only thing that was new was the Ballade Sport adjustable timing gear and their tct.. I am using the OEM cams and OEM head gasket. It's worth noting that the block had to be decked, machine shop doesn't remember how much they removed but guessed around .008" The head has never been resurfaced. The link i provided above has all the details and pics.

when I put in the Ballade tct, it went in relatively easy but didn't sit flush with the block. There was around a 3mm gap. It took about 2 two fingers and a slight bit of pressure to seat it flush, if I let go it would slowly pop out again... I don't think this is because there was tension on the chain, but because the new o-rings kept popping it back out. I looked at the timing chain from the top of the head (valve cover is off) and was able to jiggle it with a screwdriver, so it seems like it had enough slack.

i called Alex at Ballade and he said it's ok if there is a tiny gap and i need to push the tct in to seat it because the o-rings may be what's causing the resistance. He seemed more worried about liability than helping.

I'm in California and was unfamiliar with Ballade and read about them last night, and now I'm freaked out about the quality of their tct and it grenading my motor. Had I known this before, I would've certainly gone with your tct, but now I'm stuck with theirs.

I don't understand why the crank pulley, timing chain gear and intake cam gear all seem to be at perfect TDC, but only the exhaust cam gear seems to be slightly off. That means everything else is set correctly right?

I need to fix this ASAP because this is my only transportation. I'll see if I can upload pics today, otherwise they're on the new thread i made in the link above. Thanks

 

Here are the pics from the link of the new thread i started. They seem to upload fine now. This is how my motor currently is... I feel like my crank pulley/timing chain sprocket/and intake cam gear are all properly set at TDC, but the exhaust cam gear timing mark is positioned about half a tooth too low and not level with the head surface.

The intake cam gear mark seems to be in the right position; would you agree? So why would just the exhaust cam be off? Is the amount the current timing is off negligible? Should I continue putting the motor back together and try and start the car to see what happens or will this cause damage to my motor? It's my understanding that timing has to be absolutely perfect or the motor won't start, but since my block was decked possibly around .008" I was wondering if that's enough to cause this issue? But then again, why is only affecting the exhaust cam?


crank pulley seems to be at TDC. this is also the highest point of the piston #1

note the exhaust cam timing mark on the left, it's slightly lower than the intake timing mark on the right

i added some red paint to highlight the timing marks on the gears

I feel the adjustable timing sprocket and intake cam gear are fine, but the exhaust cam mark seems to be off by half a tooth or less

not sure if the cam caps will sit flush after i torque them down fully, or if the cams are being slightly pushed up for some reason. the cam caps are finger tight here, but the dowel pin resistance could be the reason they're not sitting flush without being torqued down

 

is there any advice you can give me on how to remove old duel from the gas tank please?

 

If you can't get a siphon hose down the fuel filler from the outside you can remove the filler neck and get to it that way or remove the fuel pump and siphon via the large hole on the top of the tank.

-- Chuck