New turbo kit?
09-25-2002, 08:15 AM
#11
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For what it's worth, the speedcraft kit is pretty basic. Unless I am mistaken, it's the pretty standard turbo setup using an AFC hack and larger injectors for the fuel delivery. There's nothing wrong with that, but there's not much to support the large claims people make about R&D. It works, or it doesn't. It fits, or it doesn't. I doubt they were doing stress and vibration analysis on the block (and I doubt this company would, either). Many, many people run this configuration on all sorts of hondas. (www.honda-tech.com)
Using this, anyone can put together a low boost kit for any honda. The biggest advantage any company would have is in making sure the pieces really, truely fit; that the manifold is made out of proper high carbon steel so it won't crack, and insuring that it is properly QA'd beforehand; and finding or fabricating an intercooler that can fit without hacking. I know for a fact you can proto a AFC-style hack for less than $100 on a custom board, although, there are QA and testing issues there as well.
The rest of the components are just about selecting quality; Tial over deltagate, RC Engineering over refurbished DSM injectors, including a wideband O2 sensor and knock detection as standard equipment, etc.
That said, most hondas match rather nicely with a low boost, quick spooling turbo. Myself and a lot of other people would be very interested in a low boost, quick spooling, reliable turbo that added torque and boosted HP in the 50-85hp range.
The problem is, that aside from the manifold and the intercooler, it is very easy to fabricate the rest of the components custom to your vehicle. There might be more market for a book on doing it than there is in the kit itself. The current prices do not reflect reality in this market, although, I may not be representative of the target demographic. An inexpensive, well thought out kit will sell, that's been established in 1000's of posts.
Build the damn thing, test it, and people will buy. A good scrounger with a welder could do it for $2 grand or even less. Between that and the speedcraft kit, there is much room for profit.
My $0.02.
Steve
Using this, anyone can put together a low boost kit for any honda. The biggest advantage any company would have is in making sure the pieces really, truely fit; that the manifold is made out of proper high carbon steel so it won't crack, and insuring that it is properly QA'd beforehand; and finding or fabricating an intercooler that can fit without hacking. I know for a fact you can proto a AFC-style hack for less than $100 on a custom board, although, there are QA and testing issues there as well.
The rest of the components are just about selecting quality; Tial over deltagate, RC Engineering over refurbished DSM injectors, including a wideband O2 sensor and knock detection as standard equipment, etc.
That said, most hondas match rather nicely with a low boost, quick spooling turbo. Myself and a lot of other people would be very interested in a low boost, quick spooling, reliable turbo that added torque and boosted HP in the 50-85hp range.
The problem is, that aside from the manifold and the intercooler, it is very easy to fabricate the rest of the components custom to your vehicle. There might be more market for a book on doing it than there is in the kit itself. The current prices do not reflect reality in this market, although, I may not be representative of the target demographic. An inexpensive, well thought out kit will sell, that's been established in 1000's of posts.
Build the damn thing, test it, and people will buy. A good scrounger with a welder could do it for $2 grand or even less. Between that and the speedcraft kit, there is much room for profit.
My $0.02.
Steve
09-26-2002, 01:19 AM
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jahwerx,
We are a new company and so far only finished one turbo kit for the 4 cylinder eclipse and its been tested over and over with great results. We have sold 8 kits so far and just released it 2 months ago with not much advertising. We are about to finish a twin turbo kit on a dodge avenger (not an easy kit to make) and in the next 2 months a twin turbo kit and a single kit will be released for the IS300. We have a few people working on different cars and making different types of products. With as much products as we sell we can afford to make affordable turbo kits that are reliable and make good power.
XERD and the website are pretty new and the website is being updated daily with more pictures and products being released. As of right now there are no prices on the turbo kits because they are not all available as of yet.
xtal,
You are 100% right, there is nothing more to say. A turbo kit is pretty simple, its the same rule for all turbo kits, make the pipes fit, tune the car and there you go it works. You got one thing wrong though, we do a lot of testing before we release a product. We will be testing that engine inside out to know how much it could take and what it needs in order to live a long life. I dont know what other companies do but we sure test our cars. It will only take about 2-3 weeks to build the kit the rest of the 4-5 weeks we will be testing the car. Why would we make something that doesn't work well or may cause damage to a car, thats not a good way to stay in business.
We built a turbo kit for a a 2001 4 cylinder eclipse (before XERD was established) and we tested it for over 3 months before the owner got his car back. So far the kit has been on the road for over a year and is boosting 10-14psi daily and never had a problem. We tested it to the limits, the car is fast and reliable.
Anyhow enough small talk, i can try to tell you or convince you that we know what we are talking about but action speaks louder then words, get me a volunteer and i will give you a kit you will only have good things to say about.
We love cars and love to make quality products, thats why our products actually make power and is not just for looks. We also include a one year warranty against cracking on all of our headers and turbo manifolds.
Please find me a car to work on
Thanx. Art
We are a new company and so far only finished one turbo kit for the 4 cylinder eclipse and its been tested over and over with great results. We have sold 8 kits so far and just released it 2 months ago with not much advertising. We are about to finish a twin turbo kit on a dodge avenger (not an easy kit to make) and in the next 2 months a twin turbo kit and a single kit will be released for the IS300. We have a few people working on different cars and making different types of products. With as much products as we sell we can afford to make affordable turbo kits that are reliable and make good power.
XERD and the website are pretty new and the website is being updated daily with more pictures and products being released. As of right now there are no prices on the turbo kits because they are not all available as of yet.
xtal,
You are 100% right, there is nothing more to say. A turbo kit is pretty simple, its the same rule for all turbo kits, make the pipes fit, tune the car and there you go it works. You got one thing wrong though, we do a lot of testing before we release a product. We will be testing that engine inside out to know how much it could take and what it needs in order to live a long life. I dont know what other companies do but we sure test our cars. It will only take about 2-3 weeks to build the kit the rest of the 4-5 weeks we will be testing the car. Why would we make something that doesn't work well or may cause damage to a car, thats not a good way to stay in business.
We built a turbo kit for a a 2001 4 cylinder eclipse (before XERD was established) and we tested it for over 3 months before the owner got his car back. So far the kit has been on the road for over a year and is boosting 10-14psi daily and never had a problem. We tested it to the limits, the car is fast and reliable.
Anyhow enough small talk, i can try to tell you or convince you that we know what we are talking about but action speaks louder then words, get me a volunteer and i will give you a kit you will only have good things to say about.
We love cars and love to make quality products, thats why our products actually make power and is not just for looks. We also include a one year warranty against cracking on all of our headers and turbo manifolds.
Please find me a car to work on
Thanx. Art
09-26-2002, 08:52 AM
#17
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Hi XERD,
I'm here in So Cal, but unfortunately I'm not ready for a turbo kit yet. If / when I choose to put a blower in my car, it will either be a roots style supercharger (not available
) or a quick spooling , lower boost turbo, like the one you are developing. I think you're definitely on the right track. Try posting this in the Southern California club section.
I'm here in So Cal, but unfortunately I'm not ready for a turbo kit yet. If / when I choose to put a blower in my car, it will either be a roots style supercharger (not available
) or a quick spooling , lower boost turbo, like the one you are developing. I think you're definitely on the right track. Try posting this in the Southern California club section.
09-26-2002, 04:23 PM
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hecash,
Thank you for the info, we will keep that in mind.
Our kit will be designed for the street, we want something that will spool fast and get that car moving right off the line. This will be designed to compete with cars like the corvette, Supra, M3 and so on. We are going to make sure the car will respond to the driver and have the power right there when you need and want it.
We have 3 people interested in this project and once i have a confirmed car i will let everyone know when we will start working on it and will update the forums on a regular basis.
Thank you very much for your support.
Thank you for the info, we will keep that in mind.
Our kit will be designed for the street, we want something that will spool fast and get that car moving right off the line. This will be designed to compete with cars like the corvette, Supra, M3 and so on. We are going to make sure the car will respond to the driver and have the power right there when you need and want it.
We have 3 people interested in this project and once i have a confirmed car i will let everyone know when we will start working on it and will update the forums on a regular basis.
Thank you very much for your support.
09-26-2002, 08:26 PM
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> We also include a one year warranty against cracking on all of our headers and turbo manifolds.
Color me unimpressed. Greddy has the same warranty. What grade stainless are you using? Or cast iron? A 5 year warranty or a 100k mile guarantee would be much more on par what a properly cast part should be capable of. I don't mean to be hostile, but a one year warranty on an exhaust manifold isn't very awe inspiring at all, so don't sell it as such. It's more like the bare minimum on a $4000 product. (figure $500-600 for the manifold?)
It would be nice to see a kit designed with engine flogging in mind, though. A low boost (0.4-0.6 bar) turbo that spools very, very quickly (3000? 3500rpm) would be great, and the trick being maintaining a reasonably linear power curve to keep the thing controllable. Lots of hacks will get you something that's stable in bursts, but track and agressive highway use is something different.
It would be very interesting to see what price point you can hit. I would encourage anyone here interested in a small, quick spooling turbo to read the book 'Maximum Boost' by Corkey Bell (ISBN: 0837601606) and the High Performance Honda Builder's Handbook (not handy to get isbn). Unfortunately, as I had mentioned before, the two hard parts to source are the turbo manifold and intercooler.
That assumes your time is free, or this is a hobby. I do not recommend anyone install a turbo on a honda engine who isn't a) framiliar with the workings and can do repair or b) is more than 100km from their speed shop. Heh.
Best luck with the project, and keep us informed. I would be very interested in your results should you choose to share them.
Steve
Color me unimpressed. Greddy has the same warranty. What grade stainless are you using? Or cast iron? A 5 year warranty or a 100k mile guarantee would be much more on par what a properly cast part should be capable of. I don't mean to be hostile, but a one year warranty on an exhaust manifold isn't very awe inspiring at all, so don't sell it as such. It's more like the bare minimum on a $4000 product. (figure $500-600 for the manifold?)
It would be nice to see a kit designed with engine flogging in mind, though. A low boost (0.4-0.6 bar) turbo that spools very, very quickly (3000? 3500rpm) would be great, and the trick being maintaining a reasonably linear power curve to keep the thing controllable. Lots of hacks will get you something that's stable in bursts, but track and agressive highway use is something different.
It would be very interesting to see what price point you can hit. I would encourage anyone here interested in a small, quick spooling turbo to read the book 'Maximum Boost' by Corkey Bell (ISBN: 0837601606) and the High Performance Honda Builder's Handbook (not handy to get isbn). Unfortunately, as I had mentioned before, the two hard parts to source are the turbo manifold and intercooler.
That assumes your time is free, or this is a hobby. I do not recommend anyone install a turbo on a honda engine who isn't a) framiliar with the workings and can do repair or b) is more than 100km from their speed shop. Heh.
Best luck with the project, and keep us informed. I would be very interested in your results should you choose to share them.
Steve
09-27-2002, 12:01 AM
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Sorry we can only offer a one year warranty with our products. GReddy doesn't offer any type of warranty on any of their turbo manifolds as far as i know and then again we are not GReddy we are XERD and this is how we do business.
We haven't even started the project so there is not much to talk about as of right now. Once we have something to show we will let everyone know. We are a full time business and we dont do this as a hobby even though we do like it.
Thank you very much. Art
We haven't even started the project so there is not much to talk about as of right now. Once we have something to show we will let everyone know. We are a full time business and we dont do this as a hobby even though we do like it.
Thank you very much. Art