OEM Shocks rebuildable?
12-06-2019, 12:24 PM
#21
Stock Showas are pretty good definitely have a bit more high speed damping on compression, but I feel are a bit under damped on rebound. The Konis seem to have the opposite behavior. Softer on compression and slightly over damped on rebound, letting the springs do most of the work.
There is a difference and like I said, at near or stock ride heights it's very subtle. You'd probably notice if you're used to one setup and jumped in a car with a different setup, but I'd wager that's true in any case. Doesn't mean it's bad, just different.
Besides, with these cars it's Ohlins or bust.
I feel that is the only coil over that is an actual upgrade over stock(for the price), and not just a replacement part.
KWs as good as they are, aren't good for our cars so I agree a twin tube isn't ideal. it's certainly not an upgrade.
There is a difference and like I said, at near or stock ride heights it's very subtle. You'd probably notice if you're used to one setup and jumped in a car with a different setup, but I'd wager that's true in any case. Doesn't mean it's bad, just different.
Besides, with these cars it's Ohlins or bust.
I feel that is the only coil over that is an actual upgrade over stock(for the price), and not just a replacement part.
KWs as good as they are, aren't good for our cars so I agree a twin tube isn't ideal. it's certainly not an upgrade.
But I agree that the Ohlins is a very safe bet for an excellent setup.
Not saying most people will pinpoint differences down to the shock's damping curve being different.
However, I think that most people who drive this car are enthusiasts too. And even a very basic enthusiast would notice that *something* is different. "Car drives differently, but can't put my finger on why" kinda thing.
One way or the other...I believe most people would note a difference.
That's subjective.
OBJECTIVELY, monotubes are a superior design for sporty cars in most ways. Right?
The car comes with nicely made monotubes.
Whether or not you notice...you will have downgraded with twin tubes.
Last edited by B serious; 12-06-2019 at 12:28 PM.
12-09-2019, 10:28 AM
#22
Registered User
my observations going from stock shocks to koni yellow lower perch on stock springs -
immediately after installing the koni yellows, besides sitting lower, there was something different, the suspension felt softer, probably due to the lower compression. but that's about all that i noticed.
a few days later, i drove the car to vegas on the koni's, and there was a drastic difference in road control, in which the koni's were a huge improvement. it was an improvement in straight line high speed planted stability and road holding. i'm guessing it's due to higher rebound.
i cannot speak for the track performance on this set up with stock springs, but i can speak for it's track performance when I switched to Swift Spec R springs, the setup handled very well, very balanced.
not a huge upgrade over stock, but in my experiences, koni yellows were an upgrade based on what i felt.
perhaps being lowered contributed to it. so it's really hard to say.
so my point of confusion and basis for my question is, if the increased rebound contributed to what i perceived to be better road holding and stability, should i really be concerned that it's not monotube?
immediately after installing the koni yellows, besides sitting lower, there was something different, the suspension felt softer, probably due to the lower compression. but that's about all that i noticed.
a few days later, i drove the car to vegas on the koni's, and there was a drastic difference in road control, in which the koni's were a huge improvement. it was an improvement in straight line high speed planted stability and road holding. i'm guessing it's due to higher rebound.
i cannot speak for the track performance on this set up with stock springs, but i can speak for it's track performance when I switched to Swift Spec R springs, the setup handled very well, very balanced.
not a huge upgrade over stock, but in my experiences, koni yellows were an upgrade based on what i felt.
perhaps being lowered contributed to it. so it's really hard to say.
so my point of confusion and basis for my question is, if the increased rebound contributed to what i perceived to be better road holding and stability, should i really be concerned that it's not monotube?
12-09-2019, 11:26 AM
#23
my observations going from stock shocks to koni yellow lower perch on stock springs -
immediately after installing the koni yellows, besides sitting lower, there was something different, the suspension felt softer, probably due to the lower compression. but that's about all that i noticed.
a few days later, i drove the car to vegas on the koni's, and there was a drastic difference in road control, in which the koni's were a huge improvement. it was an improvement in straight line high speed planted stability and road holding. i'm guessing it's due to higher rebound.
i cannot speak for the track performance on this set up with stock springs, but i can speak for it's track performance when I switched to Swift Spec R springs, the setup handled very well, very balanced.
not a huge upgrade over stock, but in my experiences, koni yellows were an upgrade based on what i felt.
perhaps being lowered contributed to it. so it's really hard to say.
so my point of confusion and basis for my question is, if the increased rebound contributed to what i perceived to be better road holding and stability, should i really be concerned that it's not monotube?
immediately after installing the koni yellows, besides sitting lower, there was something different, the suspension felt softer, probably due to the lower compression. but that's about all that i noticed.
a few days later, i drove the car to vegas on the koni's, and there was a drastic difference in road control, in which the koni's were a huge improvement. it was an improvement in straight line high speed planted stability and road holding. i'm guessing it's due to higher rebound.
i cannot speak for the track performance on this set up with stock springs, but i can speak for it's track performance when I switched to Swift Spec R springs, the setup handled very well, very balanced.
not a huge upgrade over stock, but in my experiences, koni yellows were an upgrade based on what i felt.
perhaps being lowered contributed to it. so it's really hard to say.
so my point of confusion and basis for my question is, if the increased rebound contributed to what i perceived to be better road holding and stability, should i really be concerned that it's not monotube?
When doing an apples to apples comparison:
Monotubes provide better, more "high def" road feel. The valving control is more precise. They can perform well at low piston speeds (twin tubes often have issues with this), they don't easily cavitate from heat or rapid movements, etc.
If you can't feel any of that, don't care for any of that, or feel that a more docile twin tube is an upgrade (twin tubes do have advantages for comfort)....then buy what you prefer.
Monotubes preserve the car's original character. For driving experience/enjoyment, I'd prefer monotubes.
There's nothing WRONG with Konis. They're not going to malfunction because the car was designed on monotubes. Koni actually makes an excellent shock.
I would want monotubes on my S2000 because to me, the monotubes feel a lot better.
However....you did note that there was a difference even though you weren't looking for one.
AND, you don't have a baseline/apples to apples comparison. You lowered the car when you installed the Konis.
This is like a tires discussion.
Soft and secure Conti ECS? Or something that matches the equipment the car was designed on, like a S04 PP?
Last edited by B serious; 12-09-2019 at 11:28 AM.
12-09-2019, 01:28 PM
#24
It probably shouldn't be surprising that brand new shocks performed better than old shocks with many miles, regardless if the old ones were of superior design or not.
So if you just want your car to handle better than it does now, and now its riding on worn stuff, then something like a Koni yellow or orange should be everything you need.
But if you want it to be as good or 'better' than the original suspension when it was new, that is a more complicated request.
So if you just want your car to handle better than it does now, and now its riding on worn stuff, then something like a Koni yellow or orange should be everything you need.
But if you want it to be as good or 'better' than the original suspension when it was new, that is a more complicated request.
12-10-2019, 06:36 AM
#25
Registered User
It probably shouldn't be surprising that brand new shocks performed better than old shocks with many miles, regardless if the old ones were of superior design or not.
So if you just want your car to handle better than it does now, and now its riding on worn stuff, then something like a Koni yellow or orange should be everything you need.
But if you want it to be as good or 'better' than the original suspension when it was new, that is a more complicated request.
So if you just want your car to handle better than it does now, and now its riding on worn stuff, then something like a Koni yellow or orange should be everything you need.
But if you want it to be as good or 'better' than the original suspension when it was new, that is a more complicated request.
the stock shocks feeling worn is what prompted me to go shopping for shocks. and the koni's enabled me to lower the car.
although it is not apples to apples comparison because the car was lower with the koni's, i personally attributed the perceived improvement in road holding to the rebound characteristics of the koni's, while also being aware having a lower ride height may contribute to some of that feeling.
but since it is being mentioned over and over again, i am beginning to realize that there was an original "precision" feeling with new oem shocks that is no longer there, but i am more happy with better road holding performance of the koni's. perhaps it can be described as the original shocks have better initial cornering feel, and the koni's have better mid to late corner holding ability.
12-10-2019, 09:54 AM
#26
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So, how many people out there have felt they need to replace shocks? Miles/Age? I would think tracking the car would accelerate the replacement cycle.
My 2009 with 75K miles seems fine to me. Wondering if I should snag some now for the future (if any) replacement.
My 2009 with 75K miles seems fine to me. Wondering if I should snag some now for the future (if any) replacement.
12-10-2019, 10:20 AM
#27
04 95k and seals went on rears
12-10-2019, 10:45 AM
#28
I have an '02 with 94k miles, had it for 3 years. I have been thinking of replacing the shocks which appear to be original.
When the suspension is loaded the outside rear has a pronounced bounce. It takes an initial set and then an oscillating 1"-2" bounce.
When the suspension is loaded the outside rear has a pronounced bounce. It takes an initial set and then an oscillating 1"-2" bounce.
12-10-2019, 10:47 AM
#29
Downside to monotubes...
they typically wear faster and are more "delicate" since the outer tube is the only tube. And the air spring has a potential to deflate.
I think one of the shocks on my trap (track) car is like 130K+ miles old. Still holding on!!
One of the (130K +? mile) rears ruptured while the car was parked in the garage. I was wondering where all the oil was coming from...
It depends on type of use for sure. But any shock is going to degrade over time/miles even if its not leaking externally.
A new shock will probably feel notably better than a 75K mile old one.
they typically wear faster and are more "delicate" since the outer tube is the only tube. And the air spring has a potential to deflate.
I think one of the shocks on my trap (track) car is like 130K+ miles old. Still holding on!!
One of the (130K +? mile) rears ruptured while the car was parked in the garage. I was wondering where all the oil was coming from...
It depends on type of use for sure. But any shock is going to degrade over time/miles even if its not leaking externally.
A new shock will probably feel notably better than a 75K mile old one.
