[QUOTE]Originally posted by Road Rage

 

Sadly, I know exactly what you are talking about. (I have the Spugen Dual Ti,......no silencers)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JL9000

 

I don't mind the questions at all. I haven't quite decided yet on what I'm going to do. I've been wanting to experiment and learn how to use fiberglass and carbon fiber with the vacuum bagging process. I have bought a few books and I have done TONS of reading online about it. It really sounds very easy to do, but just takes practice to get good at. Fiberglass is cheap, and carbon fiber is cheaper than most people think. (normally about $30 per running yard) And rolls are 50" wide.

I plan on supercharging my S2000 in the future, but I really don't know when. So I will probably end up building this intake, then selling it (along with the hood) when I buy the supercharger.

Then again, I could adapt the intake to the supercharger too.

 

You and me, both! Although I know it's one of those things that I'll probably never get around to playing with due to lack of time...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Ben
I plan on supercharging my S2000 in the future, but I really don't know when. So I will probably end up building this intake, then selling it (along with the hood) when I buy the supercharger.

 

Becuase it wil be a great learning experience. I plan on doing more than just this intake in carbon fiber.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Ben

 

From Big Ben

"I have to disagree with most of that. Any turbulance or tumble effect that is caused by the air box will be gone by the time the air is through the filter. Then, any tumble that is caused by the intake tube is going to be gone by the time it gets to the intake plenum. The only thing these two items will cause is head losses (head losses are bad)."


Sorry for not replying earlier folks, I have been out of town at a ProSolo race this past weekend. No internet access.

Now according to Big Ben's response to my assertion that I believe Honda designed a cyclone effect in the inlet - I believe that I may have been misunderstood. I was talking about the inlet to the air box, not the inlet runner to the engine. Big Ben you are right about filters taking the turbulence right out of the air stream.

If you look at the inlet to the air box, I have all ready estimated the velocity at the inlet at WOT to be about 200 ft/sec. Immediately inside the air box is a transition piece that does a 90 degree right turn. Any large stuff in the air stream would be thrown to the outside of the turn. What I don't know at this point - because I have not had the chance to take the lid off my airbox since posting, is what is done after the 90 degree right turn.

In the turn, there would be a differentiation of particle sizes - large particles on the outer radius of the turn, and finer particles on the inner radius. The large particles, would probably drop out after the air slowed down (at the exit of the right turn), and not be carried to the filter because they would end up in the first chamber of the airbox.

Remember, dirt holding capacity is an important factor in filter design. With a given filter media, the less dirt that gets to the filter, the longer it lasts. If you remove the larger stuff using the cyclone effect, then you reduce the overall dirt load to the filter, and the filter lasts longer.

 

I've got to say fellas, as an intake geek, this is probably the finest discussion of
the science we've had in years (hats off to 'Blade for starting it up). For those
who might be so inclined to investigate AFE filters, they do not make an OEM
replacement filter for the S2000 so you'll have to go with one of their universal
designs appropriate for the stock inlet tube diameter (3 1/2 inches is it not?). I
should know but rid myself of the stock airbox within a month of ownership and
I simply can't recall what it is.
As for the AFE filter appropriate for the Comptech S2000 airbox, be advised
that the intake length and top diameter is a bit oversized for a sure fit inside the
Comptech airbox. You'll have to really tuck it in there and be VERY careful when
tightening the 5 1/2-inch clamp that "supposedly" secures the filter to the Comptech
air box base. Mine (when I had the Comptech) came off more than once and
another member who owns the same setup (Comptech airbox/AFE filter) called me
to say HIS came off as well. Imagine. NO air filter between the CAI tube and
where air is coming in. It won't move much if the clamp comes off (there simply isn't
room) but again, it's a VERY tight fit.
In this case, I haven't checked but if AFE makes a filter with the same inlet
size but a shorter filter, it would make for a better match for the Comptech air box.
They are GREAT filters and worth investigating, even for stock systems or
replacements for most other intake systems.

Getting back to the discussion in general, I am quite sure the right angle design
of the stock airbox was done for the reasons discussed above. Unfortunately, and
I use the stock exhaust as an example, in nine out of 10 automobiles (the S2000
is most certainly included), the stock exhaust and intake are NOT designed for
maximum horsepower delivery, rather it is a marriage of sound control and performance
with the former outweighing the latter in importance. The S2000, perhaps more so
than any $30K automobile built in recent memory, is an automobile with few
compromises to the true hardcore enthusiast but alas, a few managed to make
their way into the final cut with the intake/exhaust among them.
Honda (correctly) assumes that most avid enthusiasts are going to experiment (as
will tuners who supply the products) with the intake/exhaust systems and as
such, design both with the AVERAGE owner in mind. Let's face it fellas, those of
us who are jones'in over a 2-page dissertation on the science of intakes are NOT the
average owner.
With all this in mind, for those not yet committed to an intake decision (who actually might be reading this thread!) it would be difficult to replace the stock airbox with a resonably well designed intake that LOSES power. With the exception of short ram intakes whose filters are left exposed in the engine bay (original RM Racing comes to mind as does the original Injen short ram) most, if not all, aftermarket intakes will outperform the stock airbox.
As interesting as the discussion is, don't get so caught up in it that you forget that
all of these intakes draw air from the same location (front of the car) and whatever
method each manufacturer chooses to route it (from the faux brake duct, wheel
well, scoop from the front grille, etc); in the end, I truly believe there is less than
3hp difference between ALL of them.

 

The point of the intakes is to add horsepower (or reduce power loss) from the intake. In all of the aftermarket intakes I have seen (I have not seen that many), the filters are substantially smaller than the OEM filter.

There is a tradeoff - if the filter is smaller, but more permeable, that sets an alarm off in my head. The first thing I would suspect is that the filter media has a larger pore size and, hence, lets the smaller particulate through. In addition, as particulate builds up on the surface of the element, the pressure drop through the element is going to increase at a faster rate than the pressure drop through a larger element because the velocity of the air through the filter media is higher.

If the aftermarket filter media suppliers change the removal rating of the filter media from that which Honda uses, I would also be suspect. Who knows better than the engineers designing the engines what size particles are going to cause problems and what sizes don't cause problems. If you allow larger particles through the filter, you may add performance, but at the cost of premature wear.

So, the key point here is - if you are going to use an aftermarket intake, with the smaller filter, I would be cleaning the filter (or changing the filter) often. If you track the car, or auto-X the car, you should be looking at the filter before these events, as this is the time when you are going to be spending the most time at WOT, and a dirty filter can add substantial head loss to the intake.