Rough start in mornings!!!
10-30-2002, 07:28 AM
#51
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Thread Starter
Newest update. I talked to Rob again this morning (I must agree he is really good about getting back with you and keeping you posted on what's going on). He says he ran a report on the engine at startup and sent it in to tech support. He also, by the way, says that TEAM HONDA never got back with tech support on the issue. TEAM was supposed to send in the report to them as well, but they didn't show it as occurring yet. TEAM told me they had.
Well, everything on the report showed normal and within limits. No new news here. They checked the pressure on the fuel line again (they start it, kill it, let it sit for 30 minutes, and then make sure it hasn't droped more than 10 psi -- it had dropped only 9, which is within limits). If this had been below 10, then they would have replaced the fuel regulator, which I told him has been done already anyways. They also mentioned the battery was only showing like 8 or 9 volts at startup, and it needs 10. He asked if I was having any problems with the battery, told eu no. Of course, this COULD be caused by the amps, but not necessarily cause THIS issue.
He then tried to address the possibility of the quality of gas in the Front Range area. I admitted this could be a possibility, but one that I would only consider after every other possibility had been ruled out. If they think its local gas, regional weather condition, yada yada yada, then they will need to prove this by ruling everyting else out.
But, he was still pretty good. He mentioned these possibilities, but then went on to say he will first try replacing the IAC valve (Idle Air Control valve, I believe). If this doesn't work, says he will look at doing a valve job on it, in the off chance one is out of adjustment enough to cause a lack of "vacuum" pressure. I'm not so sure on the valve job being the issue, but hey, I'm not going to complain either. The IAC, though, definitely sounds like a logical possibility. Oh, by the way. He looked at the specs from the report on the MAP sensor and says its fine.
All in all, still not to bad service wise, minus the main fact that the issue still isn't fixed. If it takes some time to find the answer, willing to give it up in the interest of finding a fix for me and everyone else. He says he will overnight it and hopefully get it installed tomorrow and start her tomorrow after that to see if any changes.
I'll keep you all posted.
Well, everything on the report showed normal and within limits. No new news here. They checked the pressure on the fuel line again (they start it, kill it, let it sit for 30 minutes, and then make sure it hasn't droped more than 10 psi -- it had dropped only 9, which is within limits). If this had been below 10, then they would have replaced the fuel regulator, which I told him has been done already anyways. They also mentioned the battery was only showing like 8 or 9 volts at startup, and it needs 10. He asked if I was having any problems with the battery, told eu no. Of course, this COULD be caused by the amps, but not necessarily cause THIS issue.
He then tried to address the possibility of the quality of gas in the Front Range area. I admitted this could be a possibility, but one that I would only consider after every other possibility had been ruled out. If they think its local gas, regional weather condition, yada yada yada, then they will need to prove this by ruling everyting else out.
But, he was still pretty good. He mentioned these possibilities, but then went on to say he will first try replacing the IAC valve (Idle Air Control valve, I believe). If this doesn't work, says he will look at doing a valve job on it, in the off chance one is out of adjustment enough to cause a lack of "vacuum" pressure. I'm not so sure on the valve job being the issue, but hey, I'm not going to complain either. The IAC, though, definitely sounds like a logical possibility. Oh, by the way. He looked at the specs from the report on the MAP sensor and says its fine.
All in all, still not to bad service wise, minus the main fact that the issue still isn't fixed. If it takes some time to find the answer, willing to give it up in the interest of finding a fix for me and everyone else. He says he will overnight it and hopefully get it installed tomorrow and start her tomorrow after that to see if any changes.
I'll keep you all posted.
11-01-2002, 07:22 AM
#52
Registered User
Thread Starter
We might be getting somewhere here. I spoke with Rob again yesterday afternoon. He's the lates deal. First he says the IAC valve is backordered til Nov 14. Says he spoke with tech support and they decided to cancel going that route. Instead, the first wanted him to try replacing the battery, as it wasn't showing enough voltage (like 8 or 9). He tested it and it failed at like 9-something. So he replaced the battery, but it didn't fix it. Then TS had him take readings of the MAP sensor at both idle and 2500rpm (no load, hot engine). Both the numbers showed lower than normal voltage readings on the MAP, so they are going try changing that. From what I remember, he was also suspecting timing might be an issue, so he is also going to adjust the timing (is this the same as a valve job?) in the meantime while waiting for the MAP to come in (should be installed by sometime monday).
At any rate, the problem is still there, but it seems like we might be on to something. Hopefully!! And yes, I already suggested to them they look at the MAP sensor, but they though it looked ok before.
IS adjusting the timing the same as a valve job? Just wondering. I thought they were both related.
At any rate, the problem is still there, but it seems like we might be on to something. Hopefully!! And yes, I already suggested to them they look at the MAP sensor, but they though it looked ok before.
IS adjusting the timing the same as a valve job? Just wondering. I thought they were both related.
11-02-2002, 03:31 PM
#55
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hey baldy74 good job in trying to track this down mine is getting worse so I'll be happy to see what you learn mine, will go in to Markley Motors some time 2nd week in Nov, hopefully your's will be resolved by then.
11-04-2002, 11:32 AM
#56
Registered User
Thread Starter
They have given up. I just got off the phone with Rob. Says before he tried replacing MAP sensor from another car, he took a snapshot of it and the voltage readings were exactly the same, so he says he say no point in swapping them. And this car is exhibiting the exact same problem - brand new with only 2k miles on it. I tried explaining to him that all this proves is that another car has the same problem. His control isn't and different from his variable - it just another example of the exact same variable. Told him he needs to try it with a part from a car that ISN'T exhibiting the problem. He says doesn't have a car that doesn't exhibit this problem. Says they all do this.
He said he still has authorization from Tech support to replaced the IAC valve, but he doubts this is the problem because he has physically checked it and says it's working fine. At this point there is nothing else he can do.
He did mention one thing, and this is where I need everyone else's help. He says, according to tech support, they only have five documented instances of this prolem, and 3 are from Rob. I know a lot of you out there seem to have this problem, and if you still are, can you try and take it to your local dealerships so that we can have this documented. I gather and issue like this purely numbers driven, and they aren't even going to escalate an issue like this if only a handfull of people are having the problem. If they see that a lot more people are experiencing this, then they can't deny the issue's existence, nor that it's a prominent one as well. Or maybe I am just one of the few who is experiencing this problem, and I'll just have to live with it.
Well, not sure what else I can do. I've tried dealing with Honda customer service before, and the afe F@#$ing useless. They just end up contacting the dealership and talking with them, and then they just take the same position as the dealership. If anyone else is able to have this issue resolved by a dealership under warranty, please let me know. Or, if you have any other recourse that I can follow (that is actually productive and not just more banging me head against the wall) PLEASE share this as well.
Sorry this thread went on for so long and didn't even end up with a resolution.
He said he still has authorization from Tech support to replaced the IAC valve, but he doubts this is the problem because he has physically checked it and says it's working fine. At this point there is nothing else he can do.
He did mention one thing, and this is where I need everyone else's help. He says, according to tech support, they only have five documented instances of this prolem, and 3 are from Rob. I know a lot of you out there seem to have this problem, and if you still are, can you try and take it to your local dealerships so that we can have this documented. I gather and issue like this purely numbers driven, and they aren't even going to escalate an issue like this if only a handfull of people are having the problem. If they see that a lot more people are experiencing this, then they can't deny the issue's existence, nor that it's a prominent one as well. Or maybe I am just one of the few who is experiencing this problem, and I'll just have to live with it.
Well, not sure what else I can do. I've tried dealing with Honda customer service before, and the afe F@#$ing useless. They just end up contacting the dealership and talking with them, and then they just take the same position as the dealership. If anyone else is able to have this issue resolved by a dealership under warranty, please let me know. Or, if you have any other recourse that I can follow (that is actually productive and not just more banging me head against the wall) PLEASE share this as well.
Sorry this thread went on for so long and didn't even end up with a resolution.
11-04-2002, 11:43 AM
#57
I'm pretty sure that AHM has to give you a new car if they can't fix it. I'm pretty sure this falls under the Lemon Law. My landlord from years ago bought a Chevy truck, and after the dealer couldn't fix a problem with her transmission, she was given a new one.
11-04-2002, 02:20 PM
#58
Registered User
Thread Starter
But how do you prove its a problem? According to Rob, every car he's ever seen (including his own) does this, so getting a new car wouldn't fix the issue. This is the mindset they have.
11-04-2002, 02:45 PM
#59
That doesn't make any sense to me at all. If "every car Rob has ever seen does this", then why have they spent any time on it? Why did they call tech support, then tell you that only 5 cases have been reported to them...
FYI, in the 8 months and 15K miles I've had my 'O2, it has always started smoothly.
FYI, in the 8 months and 15K miles I've had my 'O2, it has always started smoothly.
