Thoughts on buying AP1 that was over-revved
11-06-2018, 12:19 PM
#11
The valve got bent because it hit the top of the piston. Maybe the piston survived, maybe it didn't. If it didn't, any hope of any easy fix pulling head and replacing a few parts went out the window.
So that is just one of the risks you are taking.
If you do get away with pjist ulling the head, under no circumstances allow the machine shop to mill the head. They will be insistent. Be very emphatically against it.
One guy here insisted the shop not the mill the head, and they did it anyway, and now that head is a paper weight.
Also only use oem parts. Valves. Springs. Retainers. Don't let shop convince you aftermarket is better. That may be true for most any other Honda, but its not true here. Any aftermarket valvetrain parts will be a significant downgrade in longevity.
So that is just one of the risks you are taking.
If you do get away with pjist ulling the head, under no circumstances allow the machine shop to mill the head. They will be insistent. Be very emphatically against it.
One guy here insisted the shop not the mill the head, and they did it anyway, and now that head is a paper weight.
Also only use oem parts. Valves. Springs. Retainers. Don't let shop convince you aftermarket is better. That may be true for most any other Honda, but its not true here. Any aftermarket valvetrain parts will be a significant downgrade in longevity.
11-06-2018, 12:48 PM
#13
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You've got to see what kind of vibe you get from the previous owner. You can tell if the previous owner was a car person/enthusiast, cared for the car, or just treated it as a really expensive household appliance.
Ultimately, it's your money. You have all the rights to fine comb the car based on your personal beliefs of what a good purchase is. For me, if you over-rev the car, or any other driver initiated damage, or if any non-wear item needs replacing that is beyond my repairing skills, I'm walking away in a heartbeat.
Ultimately, it's your money. You have all the rights to fine comb the car based on your personal beliefs of what a good purchase is. For me, if you over-rev the car, or any other driver initiated damage, or if any non-wear item needs replacing that is beyond my repairing skills, I'm walking away in a heartbeat.
I don't think it was on the track, though I imagine it wasn't being driven 'normally' to be in danger of over-rev.
About two years ago, I did exactly what you are considering. Bought a discounted car that had been over-revved and was misfiring. Pulled the head, and replaced the valvetrain. Engine has been running fine ever since (20.000 k's), except for mad oil consumption through the piston rings, but rebuilding the head has nothing to do with that. I think it cost me less than a grand in parts. Usually when people are saying it is hard to rebuild these motors it's because of the block, special FRM cylinder walls and very tightly specced bearings. The cylinder head is mostly like any other performance engine, and is nothing special to rebuild. However, always be wary of private sellers, there might be more wrong with the car then just an over-rev.
It's an 02 with 62k miles it can't have had that hard of a life. If you've seen the car in person, or in pictures, the condition should give an indicator of how well the car was cared for.
I wouldn't call someone who mis-shifted an idiot, or anything else, sh1t happens to the best of us. I'd check out the car and go over it, condition of the car overall would sway me one way or the other. $6500 is cheap if all it needs is headwork and new valves/retainers.
I wouldn't call someone who mis-shifted an idiot, or anything else, sh1t happens to the best of us. I'd check out the car and go over it, condition of the car overall would sway me one way or the other. $6500 is cheap if all it needs is headwork and new valves/retainers.
The valve got bent because it hit the top of the piston. Maybe the piston survived, maybe it didn't. If it didn't, any hope of any easy fix pulling head and replacing a few parts went out the window.
So that is just one of the risks you are taking.
If you do get away with pjist ulling the head, under no circumstances allow the machine shop to mill the head. They will be insistent. Be very emphatically against it.
One guy here insisted the shop not the mill the head, and they did it anyway, and now that head is a paper weight.
Also only use oem parts. Valves. Springs. Retainers. Don't let shop convince you aftermarket is better. That may be true for most any other Honda, but its not true here. Any aftermarket valvetrain parts will be a significant downgrade in longevity.
So that is just one of the risks you are taking.
If you do get away with pjist ulling the head, under no circumstances allow the machine shop to mill the head. They will be insistent. Be very emphatically against it.
One guy here insisted the shop not the mill the head, and they did it anyway, and now that head is a paper weight.
Also only use oem parts. Valves. Springs. Retainers. Don't let shop convince you aftermarket is better. That may be true for most any other Honda, but its not true here. Any aftermarket valvetrain parts will be a significant downgrade in longevity.
Why no milling the head to make it flat? I've never heard of this before. Is it something special about the F20c?
11-06-2018, 01:14 PM
#14
According to the ad, hes the second owner and has almost all service records. From what I can tell, he seems to take care of his machines and just messed up. This could of course turn out to be not true. If I wind up taking a look at it, I'll keep your words in mind.
I am worried it will be an expensive headache. I'm trying to get rid of a headache currently (an old car that's starting to fall apart)
I don't think it was on the track, though I imagine it wasn't being driven 'normally' to be in danger of over-rev.
I have heard piston ring blowby can be an issue on these as they age. Did they fix that with the later models? I plan on not having to touch the block, unless i'm replacing the whole motor. swapping a longblock out wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
from what I can tell in the pictures, its been taken pretty good care of. It's not modded to all hell, only a couple little blemishes in paint. Interior is kept up, stuff like that.
That's what i'm worried about, is a retainer snapped, and dropped a valve. Since it still turns over, it's at least not stuck in the combustion chamber XD
Why no milling the head to make it flat? I've never heard of this before. Is it something special about the F20c?
I am worried it will be an expensive headache. I'm trying to get rid of a headache currently (an old car that's starting to fall apart)
I don't think it was on the track, though I imagine it wasn't being driven 'normally' to be in danger of over-rev.
I have heard piston ring blowby can be an issue on these as they age. Did they fix that with the later models? I plan on not having to touch the block, unless i'm replacing the whole motor. swapping a longblock out wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
from what I can tell in the pictures, its been taken pretty good care of. It's not modded to all hell, only a couple little blemishes in paint. Interior is kept up, stuff like that.
That's what i'm worried about, is a retainer snapped, and dropped a valve. Since it still turns over, it's at least not stuck in the combustion chamber XD
Why no milling the head to make it flat? I've never heard of this before. Is it something special about the F20c?
I'm going to assume those were power mods made to the engine (correct me if I'm wrong, can't see the ad). Anytime you subject the engine to additional power, you're adding stress onto the engine. That, plus over-revving... Sorry man, I'm walking if I were you.
11-06-2018, 01:29 PM
#15
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Sorry. Should have explained. 'Slightly modded' meant someone put Ap2 door panels and shift knob on it. possibly other non-performance affecting stuff.
engine is completely stock, I wouldn't have even considered it if someone modded then engine, then blew it up haha
engine is completely stock, I wouldn't have even considered it if someone modded then engine, then blew it up haha
11-06-2018, 01:30 PM
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Can't figure out how to edit my response, but here's the link to the ad, if anyone is interested:
craigslist ad
craigslist ad
11-06-2018, 01:32 PM
#17
If you want a S2000 buy a good running one,
as said, no easy fix for an engine 120HP per liter in this spec of Honda with failed internals ..
as said, no easy fix for an engine 120HP per liter in this spec of Honda with failed internals ..
11-06-2018, 01:44 PM
#18
Can't figure out how to edit my response, but here's the link to the ad, if anyone is interested:
craigslist ad
craigslist ad
1) After it died, previous owner didn't fix it. And now we know the transfer of ownership requires a tow...
2) It spun on ice and got into an accident: "The car is aligned and balanced..."
- That sounds awfully vague, was there frame damage? Is that what was "realigned"?
3) It's obviously seen snow and driven on salted road. Rust is probably inevitable.
4) "There was no body damage..."
- At least one headlight is misaligned, along with obvious hit-related damage to the front bumper...
You're paying a lot of money for an inoperable car that was in an accident and will most likely require a new engine. Not to mention it's coming from an ad that has contradictions all over the place.
11-06-2018, 02:11 PM
#19
best case scenario is the block is fine and it bent a few valves. You do the labor your self pull the head take it to a head shop like port flow. Get some new valves and a valve job an get a new oem head gasket and you out about $1,000
worst case scenario is your not mechanically good and have to pay labor for everything. The head and block are 100% trashed and you need aother motor. Used f20/f22c are about 3-4k and labor will be 1-2k for the swap. Your out 5-7 thousand.
worst case scenario is your not mechanically good and have to pay labor for everything. The head and block are 100% trashed and you need aother motor. Used f20/f22c are about 3-4k and labor will be 1-2k for the swap. Your out 5-7 thousand.
11-06-2018, 02:23 PM
#20
best case scenario is the block is fine and it bent a few valves. You do the labor your self pull the head take it to a head show like port flow. Get some new valves and a valve job an get a new oem head gasket and you out about $1,000
worst case scenario is your not mechanically good and have to pay labor for everything. The head and block are 100% trashed and you need aother motor. Used f20/f22c are about 3-4k and labor will be 1-2k for the swap. Your out 5-7 thousand.
worst case scenario is your not mechanically good and have to pay labor for everything. The head and block are 100% trashed and you need aother motor. Used f20/f22c are about 3-4k and labor will be 1-2k for the swap. Your out 5-7 thousand.
We don't even know what else might be wrong.
This is quickly approaching $13,000 -$15,000 for an operational car. You can actually go and buy a fully functional car with decent mileage, un-hit, all vin # intact car with that money.