tried pulling spark plugs now a cel, please help!
02-16-2006, 05:42 PM
#21
Registered User
the bottom line is this. you need to get the car into the dealership now. no one on this forum can tell you exactly what's wrong, and to try and do so is nothing more than a gamble. you've had several indications of several different things that can be going wrong.
02-16-2006, 06:01 PM
#22
Registered User
Now, before further misinformation gets spread, let's see EXACTLY what the helm's manual says.
If the misfiring is frequent enough to trigger detection of increased emissions during two consecutive driving cycles, the MIL will come on, and DTC P0300 (and some combination of P0301-4) will be stored.
So yes, you've had this.
If the misfiring is frequent enough to damage the cat, the MIL will blink when the misfiring occurs, and the same DTC's will be stored. When the misfiring stops, the MIL remains on.
Yes, you've had this.
However, you have ALSO had P1399 which also is part of the random misfiring. In general, this code appears after you have cleared the initial P0300 code. So, the symptoms result as follows:
Random misfore at low rpm and load. Check fuel pressure, and also check for low compression, or low quality fuel. (i hope you are using premium)
However, low compression is a VERY high suspect, considering you are getting oil into the engine. This is indicative of a leak somewhere, which would cause both the oil and the low compression, resulting in the misfire. Both of these are bad and can cause damage if you dont address this. Get the car to the dealerhsip now, becuase there's not a whole lot anyone else can tell you over the internet. The dealership can do a leakdown compression test. We can't.
The other explinations involve misfire only during acceleration, or misfire at high rpm under load. The last one is random conditions, which can be caused by fuel pressure or incorrect valve clearance. This is not as likely a scenario for you.
If the misfiring is frequent enough to trigger detection of increased emissions during two consecutive driving cycles, the MIL will come on, and DTC P0300 (and some combination of P0301-4) will be stored.
So yes, you've had this.
If the misfiring is frequent enough to damage the cat, the MIL will blink when the misfiring occurs, and the same DTC's will be stored. When the misfiring stops, the MIL remains on.
Yes, you've had this.
However, you have ALSO had P1399 which also is part of the random misfiring. In general, this code appears after you have cleared the initial P0300 code. So, the symptoms result as follows:
Random misfore at low rpm and load. Check fuel pressure, and also check for low compression, or low quality fuel. (i hope you are using premium)
However, low compression is a VERY high suspect, considering you are getting oil into the engine. This is indicative of a leak somewhere, which would cause both the oil and the low compression, resulting in the misfire. Both of these are bad and can cause damage if you dont address this. Get the car to the dealerhsip now, becuase there's not a whole lot anyone else can tell you over the internet. The dealership can do a leakdown compression test. We can't.
The other explinations involve misfire only during acceleration, or misfire at high rpm under load. The last one is random conditions, which can be caused by fuel pressure or incorrect valve clearance. This is not as likely a scenario for you.
02-16-2006, 06:09 PM
#23
Moderator
Perhaps the oil is an oil leak from the spark plug well gaskets. When you partially removed the plugs, you may have bridged the plug gap with oil causing the misfire.
Personally, I would:
-Remove all four plugs
-use a 3/8 extension, with a rag around it, and dry any oil from the spark plug hole, should there be any there.
-get 4 OEM Honda spark plugs, check the gap, and install/torque them to 18 ft-lbs.
-dry any oil from the coil packs, put a thin coat of dielectric silicone on the inside of the coil boots, and install them.
If you cannot do this stuff to the T, I would call a tow truck. I wouldn't even fire the engine, let alone drive it. The fact that the misfire could be caused by loss or spark is a quick way to destroy the engine (from washout as stated by others)
Personally, I would:
-Remove all four plugs
-use a 3/8 extension, with a rag around it, and dry any oil from the spark plug hole, should there be any there.
-get 4 OEM Honda spark plugs, check the gap, and install/torque them to 18 ft-lbs.
-dry any oil from the coil packs, put a thin coat of dielectric silicone on the inside of the coil boots, and install them.
If you cannot do this stuff to the T, I would call a tow truck. I wouldn't even fire the engine, let alone drive it. The fact that the misfire could be caused by loss or spark is a quick way to destroy the engine (from washout as stated by others)
02-16-2006, 06:09 PM
#24
Registered User
Wow, WisconsinS2k is as patient as he is knowledgeable and helpful. I appreciate it even though this thread has nothing to do with me.
Here's some OEM spark plug info:
NGK PFR7G-11S
98079-571BH (Honda part#)
or
DENSO PK22PR-L11S
Electrode Gap:
Standard (New): 1.0 1.1 mm (0.039-0.043 in.)
Service Limit: 1.3 mm (0.015 in.)
*Do not adjust the gap of platinum tip plugs, replace the spark plug if the gap is out of specification.
Here's some OEM spark plug info:
NGK PFR7G-11S
98079-571BH (Honda part#)
or
DENSO PK22PR-L11S
Electrode Gap:
Standard (New): 1.0 1.1 mm (0.039-0.043 in.)
Service Limit: 1.3 mm (0.015 in.)
*Do not adjust the gap of platinum tip plugs, replace the spark plug if the gap is out of specification.
02-16-2006, 06:49 PM
#25
Registered User
Originally Posted by billman250,Feb 16 2006, 09:09 PM
Perhaps the oil is an oil leak from the spark plug well gaskets. When you partially removed the plugs, you may have bridged the plug gap with oil causing the misfire.
Personally, I would:
-Remove all four plugs
-use a 3/8 extension, with a rag around it, and dry any oil from the spark plug hole, should there be any there.
-get 4 OEM Honda spark plugs, check the gap, and install/torque them to 18 ft-lbs.
-dry any oil from the coil packs, put a thin coat of dielectric silicone on the inside of the coil boots, and install them.
If you cannot do this stuff to the T, I would call a tow truck. I wouldn't even fire the engine, let alone drive it. The fact that the misfire could be caused by loss or spark is a quick way to destroy the engine (from washout as stated by others)
Personally, I would:
-Remove all four plugs
-use a 3/8 extension, with a rag around it, and dry any oil from the spark plug hole, should there be any there.
-get 4 OEM Honda spark plugs, check the gap, and install/torque them to 18 ft-lbs.
-dry any oil from the coil packs, put a thin coat of dielectric silicone on the inside of the coil boots, and install them.
If you cannot do this stuff to the T, I would call a tow truck. I wouldn't even fire the engine, let alone drive it. The fact that the misfire could be caused by loss or spark is a quick way to destroy the engine (from washout as stated by others)
02-17-2006, 12:40 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by SenderGreen,Feb 16 2006, 10:30 PM
I would think the MIL/CEL would be triggered by the actual misfire in the cylinder. The "washing out" would occur after the MIL/CEL was already triggered no?
Honestly, it just sounds to me like one cylinder stopped getting spark.
02-17-2006, 02:12 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by billman250,Feb 16 2006, 07:09 PM
Perhaps the oil is an oil leak from the spark plug well gaskets.
Where else would the oil come from.
Case closed Columbo
I agree with the others, don't drive the car till you get it running smoothly.
02-17-2006, 01:01 PM
#28
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thanks for all the input. I havent been driving around, so the car is just sitting till this weekend. Hondamanwill is gonna come over and run a compression test and some diagnostics to see if its just any easy fix. I'll keep everyone updated.
02-17-2006, 04:37 PM
#30
Moderator
Good man. Let it rest till it's checked.
Here's the deal....when you pull the s2k valve cover, the well gaskets will bow downward from sticking to the well tubes. This could have been done a while back before this current problem happened.
Now....if you don't push them back upwards when re-installing the valve cover, you stand a very good chance of cutting or distorting the well gaskets. The motor as designed, IMO, will not leak around the well gaskets unless the cover has been taken off and care was not taken when re-installing.
Here's the deal....when you pull the s2k valve cover, the well gaskets will bow downward from sticking to the well tubes. This could have been done a while back before this current problem happened.
Now....if you don't push them back upwards when re-installing the valve cover, you stand a very good chance of cutting or distorting the well gaskets. The motor as designed, IMO, will not leak around the well gaskets unless the cover has been taken off and care was not taken when re-installing.
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