dhayner

[QUOTE=gernby,Sep 27 2004, 05:29 AM]Double clutching on an upshift seems rediculous to me.

Gregg Lee

[QUOTE=CrazyPhuD,Sep 24 2004, 08:04 PM]Hmmmm....so here's a question for those who skip gears?

Gregg Lee

Other thoughts.

I've read many posts on alternate gearbox lube, always about lower gear shifting. Experiments tried for lower gears could work adversely on single cone 5 and 6. Manual gear lube is tricky stuff. Needs to be slick enough for bearing lube, but grabby enough (shear strength) to let the synchros develop enough grip.

The damage shown could only be from repeated crunching. It would never occur silently. I have recently had rare fifth crunchs on '00 model especially when "cold in warm weather" (but not in actual cold weather - stiff yes, crunch no). This is not the first car I've ever had with weak top gear synchros. so I just started babying the 5 and 6 shifts until thnigs warmed up without thinking much about it.

l8brakr

I thought in Ben's post above Honda made him cover labor costs because they claimed the transmission had to be abused to cause the damage. Also, nobody remarked on my question whether or not it is ok to go through the gears without releasing the clutch. I'm thinking the delay of rowing would be enough to allow the engine speed to come down even if it doesn't necessarily help the sychros by going through each gear. Thanks!

xviper

I don't think we can take something that a specific dealer said to a particular owner as being "Honda" saying skip shifting is abuse. We all know that dealers will use any and all excuses to deny a warranty claim and "abuse" is the most common one they use.
As for "rowing through the gears" with the clutch in, I guess this would cause the tranny to go through the same steps is if you were to release the clutch each time. I'm also of the opinion that if you took the time that it took to "row through the gears" and just moved directly into the higher gear (skipping some in between), you would accomplish the same thing. It's "time" that is required for the important bits of the tranny to slow down enough to make a skip shift safer.

Gregg Lee

Clutchless shifting in cars with synchros is difficult because the synchros resist the shift. The force from shifter on synchro is what squeezes parts toghther to create the fluid drag on the cones to do the synchronizing. The gerater the speed mismatch between shaft and gear, the higher the force. If the clutch is engaged, it is virtually impossible to get the shaft and gear speed matched, so the force will be higher, and grinding almost inevitable. Harder on both cones and teeth.

Perhaps you are thinking of race techniques. Non-synchro race trasnmissions are easy to shift clutchless but are designed differently. No synchros to push back of course, and instead of many teeth, they have a fews "dogs" which are trapazoidal with the wide end out. The dogs pull into gear rather than pushing back.

Gregg

Gernby

I don't think he was talking about clutchless shifting. I think he was talking about rowing through the gears without engaging the clutch between each gear.

Gregg Lee

Just to mess with your mind, 3 4 5 6 shifter mechanism on the s2000 are not on the input shaft (mainshaft), but on the output (countershaft). The countershaft is alway locked to the wheels and does not slow with the engine.

And in wherever the shifters are, the mainshaft will not slow to zero when the clutch is disengaged and the shfter in neutral. The countershaft is driven by the wheels. All gears remain in mesh at all times (but uncoupled from one shaft or the other). Drag between the shafts and gears will keep the mainshaft spinning. The equilibrium speed is hard to predict, but presumedly will be somewhere mid range of the gears. If so, waiting will put it about the same speed as 3 or 4 directly.

Double clutching with engine at idle will slow the mainshaft and thus gears 3-6 on the countershaft (but not the shaft itself).

Just technical discussion, not a recommendation.

Gregg Lee

Ah. That might work. Working the box into synch gradually. Low rev double clutch sounds like less trouble.

Gregg

lamvu

Hmm So lets say that you are flooring your car in a low gear, 2nd gear, and then you clutch in and you wait for the rpms to drop then you place the car in 5 or 6 gear would it still wearing down the grooves?

edit : nvm i re-read the thread.