This is why you want a 30 weight oil.
04-08-2012, 05:01 AM
#141
The "revered" German Castrol is thicker at startup than everything except for Mobil 1 15w-50, Shell 5W-40, Redline 10w-30 and Valvoline 10w-30 according to that sheet.
Instead of grumping on and on about "10w this" and "30W that", why not look at the hard data? German castrol, by viscosity alone, is providing less startup protection than any other oil except for the ones I mentioned.
If you really want startup protection, install an Accusump and pre-lubricate the engine prior to startup. You can also run oils that contain a lot of additives (typically diesel oils) and additives such as sulfur will aid in oil sticking to engine componenets.
Considering that I race a lot, I look for an oil that has a slightly higher viscosity than desired by the manufacturer because I want the oil to be at the proper viscosity when it matters (high RPM on track).
Yea that is impossible at this point in time.
I choose Motul because it is a true full ester based oil. Ester based oils are naturally multi-viscosity (meaning no polymers are added to make the oil a 5w-40) and the oil maintains its viscosity/doesn't shear down nearly as quick as a PAO based oil. These oils are capable of true long OCI. Motul also displays very high HTHS ratings. The combination of these two is an oil that can be tracked and can be run for extended periods. I typically run mine for about 6000 street miles.
Instead of grumping on and on about "10w this" and "30W that", why not look at the hard data? German castrol, by viscosity alone, is providing less startup protection than any other oil except for the ones I mentioned.
If you really want startup protection, install an Accusump and pre-lubricate the engine prior to startup. You can also run oils that contain a lot of additives (typically diesel oils) and additives such as sulfur will aid in oil sticking to engine componenets.
Considering that I race a lot, I look for an oil that has a slightly higher viscosity than desired by the manufacturer because I want the oil to be at the proper viscosity when it matters (high RPM on track).
0W-20 is a first step but I doubt we will see a 30 weight (10 cSt oil) that will stay 10 cSt at 20 C.
I choose Motul because it is a true full ester based oil. Ester based oils are naturally multi-viscosity (meaning no polymers are added to make the oil a 5w-40) and the oil maintains its viscosity/doesn't shear down nearly as quick as a PAO based oil. These oils are capable of true long OCI. Motul also displays very high HTHS ratings. The combination of these two is an oil that can be tracked and can be run for extended periods. I typically run mine for about 6000 street miles.
04-08-2012, 06:19 AM
#142
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Originally Posted by RavynX' timestamp='1329236823' post='21413552
I've tried looking for this Elusive "German Castrol" 0w-30 and still haven't found any in the local stores here (San Antonio, TX). I see the Castrol Edge 0w-30 in the black container but it says "Made in USA".
....no more Castrol for me, either Mobil1 0w40 or Pennzoil Ultra 5w30
04-08-2012, 06:24 AM
#143
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Just read through this and wow some great information. I daily drive my S2000 and spend half of the year in school up in the mountains of Virginia where it can get extremely cold, and spend my summers on the beach in VA Beach. I am tempted to try 0W-30 or would a 5W-30 be good enough year round? Or would say 5W-30 in the winter / 10W-30 summer make sense? Just trying to get the best life out of my car
But side note is it worth the extra $4-5 for the Mobil1 Extended Performance over just the plan Mobil1? (per 5qt jug). I've always just ran Mobil 10W-30 with a Mobil1 filter no problems?
But side note is it worth the extra $4-5 for the Mobil1 Extended Performance over just the plan Mobil1? (per 5qt jug). I've always just ran Mobil 10W-30 with a Mobil1 filter no problems?
04-08-2012, 08:56 AM
#144
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Originally Posted by Bizkit64' timestamp='1333865886' post='21586773
Just read through this and wow some great information. I daily drive my S2000 and spend half of the year in school up in the mountains of Virginia where it can get extremely cold, and spend my summers on the beach in VA Beach. I am tempted to try 0W-30 or would a 5W-30 be good enough year round? Or would say 5W-30 in the winter / 10W-30 summer make sense? Just trying to get the best life out of my car
But side note is it worth the extra $4-5 for the Mobil1 Extended Performance over just the plan Mobil1? (per 5qt jug). I've always just ran Mobil 10W-30 with a Mobil1 filter no problems?
But side note is it worth the extra $4-5 for the Mobil1 Extended Performance over just the plan Mobil1? (per 5qt jug). I've always just ran Mobil 10W-30 with a Mobil1 filter no problems?
04-08-2012, 10:05 AM
#145
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Considering that I race a lot, I look for an oil that has a slightly higher viscosity than desired by the manufacturer because I want the oil to be at the proper viscosity when it matters (high RPM on track).
I choose Motul because it is a true full ester based oil.
Motul also displays very high HTHS ratings.
The combination of these two is an oil that can be tracked and can be run for extended periods.
I choose Motul because it is a true full ester based oil.
Motul also displays very high HTHS ratings.
The combination of these two is an oil that can be tracked and can be run for extended periods.
Why?
Because the oil pump, and the oil in the sump, will not see HTHS oil temps (150C), so at high rpm and a thicker oil you loose oil flow into the engine compared to a thinner oil.
The pump bypass will open sooner, it looks at nothing but pressure, and thicker oil will give more pressure.
Syn 30 weights will have a HTHS of around 3, and that is enough, IMO.
A HTHS of 3.5 or even more would be nice, as long as the oil at lower temps doesn't stay too thick and reduce oil flow.
If you're talking about the Motul 300V Power oil, then yes, it has an impressively high HTHS @ 4.52 mPa.s, even for a 40 weight.
What I noticed it the test method though, ASTM D4741.
If you search for this, you'll find the ATSM website, and what they mention at the top of the description is what "bothers" me a bit:
Viscosity measured under the conditions of this test method is considered to be representative of that at the temperatures and shear rates but not the pressures in the journal bearings of internal combustion engines under operating conditions.
The relevance of these conditions to the measurement of engine-oil viscosity has been discussed in many publications.
The relevance of these conditions to the measurement of engine-oil viscosity has been discussed in many publications.
Unfortunately there is no comparison chart between the other ASTM- HTHS test methods, so we will never know how Motul will do compared to other ASTM tests.
On a dedicated track car an oil cooler is almost a must, IMO.
And, depending on the money, I would dry-sump a track car before adding accusumps.
An accusump would do nice to get oil flow before you start though
04-08-2012, 11:05 AM
#146
Originally Posted by nissanfanatic' timestamp='1333890098' post='21587076
Considering that I race a lot, I look for an oil that has a slightly higher viscosity than desired by the manufacturer because I want the oil to be at the proper viscosity when it matters (high RPM on track).
I choose Motul because it is a true full ester based oil.
Motul also displays very high HTHS ratings.
The combination of these two is an oil that can be tracked and can be run for extended periods.
I choose Motul because it is a true full ester based oil.
Motul also displays very high HTHS ratings.
The combination of these two is an oil that can be tracked and can be run for extended periods.
Why?
Because the oil pump, and the oil in the sump, will not see HTHS oil temps (150C), so at high rpm and a thicker oil you loose oil flow into the engine compared to a thinner oil.
The pump bypass will open sooner, it looks at nothing but pressure, and thicker oil will give more pressure.
Syn 30 weights will have a HTHS of around 3, and that is enough, IMO.
A HTHS of 3.5 or even more would be nice, as long as the oil at lower temps doesn't stay too thick and reduce oil flow.
If you're talking about the Motul 300V Power oil, then yes, it has an impressively high HTHS @ 4.52 mPa.s, even for a 40 weight.
What I noticed it the test method though, ASTM D4741.
If you search for this, you'll find the ATSM website, and what they mention at the top of the description is what "bothers" me a bit:
Viscosity measured under the conditions of this test method is considered to be representative of that at the temperatures and shear rates but not the pressures in the journal bearings of internal combustion engines under operating conditions.
The relevance of these conditions to the measurement of engine-oil viscosity has been discussed in many publications.
The relevance of these conditions to the measurement of engine-oil viscosity has been discussed in many publications.
Unfortunately there is no comparison chart between the other ASTM- HTHS test methods, so we will never know how Motul will do compared to other ASTM tests.
On a dedicated track car an oil cooler is almost a must, IMO.
And, depending on the money, I would dry-sump a track car before adding accusumps.
An accusump would do nice to get oil flow before you start though
I am most certainly talking about 300V, and that is what I run.
At around 240*F, my oil's viscosity is about 10.2 and that is about what I want.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-calculator/
04-08-2012, 01:24 PM
#147
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At around 240*F, my oil's viscosity is about 10.2 and that is about what I want.
http://www.bobistheo...ity-calculator/
http://www.bobistheo...ity-calculator/
240F sump temps would be a reason for me to get an oil cooler.
What coolant temps do you see at the track?
You're still using the OEM coolant/oil heat exchanger?
04-08-2012, 04:22 PM
#148
Originally Posted by nissanfanatic' timestamp='1333911923' post='21587750
At around 240*F, my oil's viscosity is about 10.2 and that is about what I want.
http://www.bobistheo...ity-calculator/
http://www.bobistheo...ity-calculator/
240F sump temps would be a reason for me to get an oil cooler.
What coolant temps do you see at the track?
You're still using the OEM coolant/oil heat exchanger?
Coolant temps are at a solid 190*F. I am still using the stock "oil heater".
I am not tracking the car at a level where I want to have a bunch of gauges in the car. If I ever did, I would probably do a Race Technologies logger. I mainly do 10-15min stints and then let it cool off for a while.
I do have an oil temp gauge and an oil cooler on my track car. My track car is street registered, but the S2000 sees a lot of street duty so I don't want a bunch of tacky gauges and crap in the car that detract from an otherwise "nice" looking car. It is too bad that there isn't a way to send oil temp data over the OBD2. I use a ScanGauge to view water temps.
04-09-2012, 03:53 AM
#149
I'm sure it is fine. I was just making a point that one shouldn't base an argument off of the numbers on the front of the bottle but rather actual viscosity measurement data at given temperatures.
04-09-2012, 09:25 AM
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Noob q.
I bought Royal Purple 10W40.
This no good I gather from this thread?
I live in Perth, Australia so it does get fairly hot yet can be cool in winter.
Am I better off buying another brand of 10w30?
Thanks
I bought Royal Purple 10W40.
This no good I gather from this thread?
I live in Perth, Australia so it does get fairly hot yet can be cool in winter.
Am I better off buying another brand of 10w30?
Thanks