ralper

In another thread I posted this story. Matt replied that the accident might have been avoidable. I suppose that is possible, but I don't know any of the circumstances of the accident. I know the road, and it is curvy, steeply sloped down and ends at a stoplight. It is often icy especially after winter rains and ice storms. It is a dangerous road.

In this morning's local paper we read that the girls were driving a 1992 BMW. I got to thinking about the airbags. I don't remember when airbags became standard equipment in cars, but I think it was 1998. I think some cars had them in 1995, but I don't think they were in 1992 cars. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the girl's car had airbags. If not, I wonder if they would have made the difference and saved the girl's lives.

Lainey

Terrible accident.

My son's class lost two students right before graduation. It's so hard to deal with.

Here's a link to info on airbags.

http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinvent.../a/air_bags.htm

dlq04

My trusty 1990 Maxima still runs like a charm, although it is showing some aging after 16 years but one of the main reasons I got a CTS was the Max did not have air bags. None-the-less I still kept the Max and actually did a couple repairs on it the past week. It does seem hard to believe that air bags are still quite new by car stardards.

matrix

- but I am also impressed with the drive some manufacturers are doing in putting them in thier cars.

For example the new civic has the standard front airbags and also side airbags on an entry level vehicle!

Matt_in_VA

Well, let me start off with the premise that virtually "ALL ACCIDENTS" are avoidable. That is why they are called "accidents" not "deliberates".

However, when the result in death and injury it is always a tragedy to those whose lives are affected.

Not knowing the circumstances, it is hard to say how avoidable this one may have been. For example*, the road that I live off of is sometimes prone to having the drainage ditches on the side of the road overflow their banks, under certain conditions. This causes two sections of the road way within a mile of our house to freeze up, sometimes into "black ice" if treated, it becomes a icy slush. When one throws steeply sloped into the mix, it gets more difficult to predict the outcome.

What we do know is that they where in-experienced drivers. Driving a car that handles reasonably well. We do not know, what type of tires or what tread was on them. There was also no mention of seat belts (one way or the other).

I have been fairly vocal, even as a non-parent about how valuable I believe it is to send your new drivers to a "real" driving school. Perhaps skills learned there may have prevented this tragedy. Who knows? With that stated: I have attended the Skip Barber Driving School twice. The first time back in 1995 when they were using BMW's, and then again in Sep of 2001 with a buddy of mine as a refresher and a chance to drive a Dodge Viper R/T. The reason that I am SO adamant about sending newly licensed drivers to a "real" driving school is based on my personal observation on these two occasions. Both times, I witnessed newly licenced drivers (as recently as three weeks) as young as 16 to 17 years old go from being totally "clueless" to in one case beating my time (to knock me out of first place) in the "Champagne Salom" (a race against the clock around an autocross course with a "Champagne Glass suction cupped to the hood with a ball in it. The object is to have the fastest time, while being smooth enough to not have the ball come out of the glass (not a flute).

I have also witnessed young drivers go from being totally "clueless" on the skid pad to nailing the course on the second day, when they make the circle a square.

If I were a parent. (this is the easy part for me) I would think that $1200 or so (plus expenses) would be money well spent to protect my investment in my child. Especially, when compared to what one typically invest in their education.

I know that some of you may think: That is easy for you to say. But, if we had children, I would make it a priority.

* Some of you have seen this before. But in January of 2004 on the way home I hit one of those patches of black ice on a curve while driving our Ford Exploder in two wheel drive mode. It did a BIG double tail wag in both directions. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason that I saved it in time from hitting a big oak tree that we were headed for was due to driver training. When we pulled in our drive way less than a half of mile latter. Barbara had not said a word. As we where getting out of the Exploder, I asked: Do I at least get some credit for saving it? Her reply was: Yes! I thought that we were dead. But your hands where a blur on the wheel. I can't believe that you saved it.

To be honest, I almost gave up after the fourth tail wag. But then I remembered one of the things that I learned. That most people only use thirty percent of their vehicles handling, braking or acceleration to avoid an accident before they give up and have one. I remember thinking to my self, don't be a thirty percenter! Once I got it pointed in the correct direction, I gassed it just enough to catch some traction and get it pointed down the road. As far as I know, they do not teach this in Drivers Ed.

If I have influenced even one parent to send their child to a "real" driving school, I will feel as though I may have saved a life.

Matt_in_VA

I am not sure that I agree.

If I recall correctly Air Bags came about because at the time a fair percentage of the public did not wear their seat belts. Seat belts on the other hand which are time tested in all sorts of vehicles from fighter jets to FA1 race cars do not have a warning statement warning that they can cause death or serious injury.

I for one would like to see some cars like the SA come standard with a four point harness, or perhaps even with an anti-submarine harness as many injuries in car crashes are leg injuries caused by knees and shins hitting the dash board.

I would also like to see cars with a dealer installed option to that one would have to sign off on to have them install to put a rocker switch to disable the ABS at the drivers discretion. I agree that for the general public that drives twenty feet in front of them with an "OH Sh*TA! Lock up the brakes skill set that ABS is generally a good thing. But with that stated: Not once but on the two occasions that I attended the Skip Barber School that is one of the drills that they put you through during the "threshold braking drill". They have you panic stop with the ABS enabled and then have you switch it off (via a rocker switch on the console). In both the BMW 325 and the Dodge Neon Sports. I have proved to myself that I can stop a car one and a half car lengths shorter without ABS than with it. That is the difference between having an accident and not having one. I for one would like the option of when to use it.

Colin

[QUOTE=ralper,Dec 18 2005, 04:49 PM] I think some cars had them in 1995, but I don't think they were in 1992 cars.