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Evolution in textbooks.

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Old Jan 15, 2005 | 03:49 AM
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edit.
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Old Jan 19, 2005 | 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Jan 14 2005, 06:10 PM
Well duh. Are you also one of those who thinks that a toilet bowl brush needs to have a warning saying: "not to be used for oral hygene"?
[edit: sorry, that sounded more personal than I meant to imply]

Textbooks are one thing, but where that sticker REALLY needs to be stuck is on the cover of every religious text.
No, I don't think we can protect idiots from themselves.

What I was referring to by "This material" is knowledge. I believe all forms of knowledge, be it evolution or creationism, whether you believe in any religious text or the chemistry text, you should approach the material with an open mind. Any subjects should be studied carefully, do not believe everything you read just because it is in a book (be it a math book or a religious book) or on the internet.
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Old Jan 19, 2005 | 04:12 PM
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Do they have books in Georgia? Or libraries in Mississippi?
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Old Jan 19, 2005 | 04:16 PM
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Well do they?
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Old Jan 20, 2005 | 07:26 AM
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I think it would be cool if grade schools had a "Critical Thinking" class. Stuff about how to evaluate statements, determine if they're true, different ways manipulation and evasion can work, etc.
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Old Jan 20, 2005 | 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Elistan,Jan 20 2005, 11:26 AM
I think it would be cool if grade schools had a "Critical Thinking" class. Stuff about how to evaluate statements, determine if they're true, different ways manipulation and evasion can work, etc.
Well, I don't know about everyplace else, but here in Lynchburg, Virginia, my daughter, who is now 20 btw, had a critical thinking class when she was in fourth grade, another in fifth grade and another in eighth grade. Can't say how everyone else benefited from that class, but she (even with ADD) has excellent skill in thinking through and resolving problems. Further, she formulates her own opinions, demonstrates good judgment and is quite literate. She is quite involved in political and social issues and very well informed.
Yes, they have books in Georgia and excellent colleges and schools, and I'm sure there are probably many students in those excellent colleges and schools who've formed an opinion regarding creationism vs. evolution, despite the sticker which may have been in the front of their textbooks.
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Old Jan 20, 2005 | 10:01 AM
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Why should the sticker be there in the first place? Should there also be stickers on Geology text books stating that tectonic plate movement is only a theory; a sticker on Astronomy texts stating that the solar system model is only a theory; a sticker on Physics texts stating that Newtonian Physics is only a theory; a sticker on Chemistry texts that atomic structure is only a theory, ad infinitum?
Perhaps schools should also require students to form an opinion on whether Santa Claus resides at the magnetic North Pole, or at the axial North Pole. The exercise would be as equally enlightening, meaningful, and productive as any of the archaic, superstitious nonsense the creationists have to offer.
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Old Jan 20, 2005 | 10:19 AM
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Dean, I never said the stickers should be there. My point is that whether or not it is there, for crying out loud -- people have brains and can think for themselves. It is of primary importance whether a child be in Georgia, Utah or anywhere else, that child be taught to read and form his own conclusions. To me (and I will preface this by saying this is MY OPINION), all this media frenzy and rhetoric about disclaimers in textbooks is simply that: rhetoric. I would venture to guess that some of the finest scientific minds in the United States came from Georgia schools with stickers on textbooks.
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Old Jan 20, 2005 | 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by valentine,Jan 20 2005, 03:19 PM
Dean, I never said the stickers should be there. My point is that whether or not it is there, for crying out loud -- people have brains and can think for themselves. It is of primary importance whether a child be in Georgia, Utah or anywhere else, that child be taught to read and form his own conclusions. To me (and I will preface this by saying this is MY OPINION), all this media frenzy and rhetoric about disclaimers in textbooks is simply that: rhetoric. I would venture to guess that some of the finest scientific minds in the United States came from Georgia schools with stickers on textbooks.
I know that you didn't say that the stickers should be there, and I didn't intend to imply otherwise. But you have stated that you don't think it's any big deal, which it in fact is. Those stickers are at best dishonest and misleading, and were being illegally forced upon children who, by nature, lack critical thinking skills. I've witnessed the damage that sort of propaganda can do. Over the course of my career, I've interviewed many students seeking admission into various Biology programs. A number of them, albeit a minority, knew nothing of evolution and were somewhat suspicious of the whole concept. Last summer, I interviewed a student who asked me if she would be required to take a course in evolution. I informed her that it was a core requirement to which she replied, "I don't want to have to take any courses that I don't believe in." Needless to say, she was not accepted into the program. It's a shame that she had been brainwashed as a child to believe such things - she probably would've been a very good student.
People, and particularly children, are notorious for looking for simple solutions to difficult questions. If I were eight years old again and given a choice between the magic pixie dust myth offered by creationists, or having to expend the effort to learn and evaluate the fossil, morphological, embryological, molecular, and genetic evidence that supports evolution, I doubt that you and I would be having this discussion. Luckily for me, I never had to make that choice.
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Old Jan 20, 2005 | 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dean,Jan 20 2005, 11:01 AM
Why should the sticker be there in the first place? Should there also be stickers on Geology text books stating that tectonic plate movement is only a theory; a sticker on Astronomy texts stating that the solar system model is only a theory; a sticker on Physics texts stating that Newtonian Physics is only a theory; a sticker on Chemistry texts that atomic structure is only a theory, ad infinitum?
I don't think that would be such a bad idea. I'd especially like to see caveats on history and political science texts, since they often reflect biases of the author.

I do agree that singling out one particular type of textbook is likely to send the incorrect message that those texts are less reliable than other texts. And I do agree that children are much more impressionable than adults and are more likely to misled by such things. So I agree with the court ruling.
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