This generation.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Delaware, OH
I've got to weigh in, even though I know what I have to say won't be popular. But keep in mind that I am a taxpayer and voter, so those of you who disagree still have to deal with me at the polls.
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I think I detect a bit of a dichotomy: we should have high expectations, but when "my little darling" fails to make the grade, then these standards are crap.
You can't bitch about some child feeling entitled to material goodies without working for them if you condone a school system that makes him/her feel entitled to "self esteem", "social promotion", etc., whether he/she does the work or not. You want them to learn to work for things, just make them work to advance from grade to grade.
I pay taxes; I vote. Here's what I demand: if the kid can't do 8th grade work, he/she doesn't go to the 9th grade. If we wind up with 20 year old 8th graders, that's fine with me. Rather than paying for a school system that attracts people for the "extras," I want to support a school system that sometimes causes people to move away because their "little darling" can't compete at our high level.
A couple of years ago, I walked into a conversation among some co-workers who couldn't solve their kids' 8th grade math work. It was a simple problem involving two unknowns and two equations. Both were easy to define and solve: I did it in my head and wrote it doen for them. Two college graduates couldn't solve this simple system of equations.
I have *ZERO* respect for (and willingness to financially support) the system that passed these people into high school. (I do vote.) I have less than zero respect for the school system that allowed them to graduate from high school. That they were even allowed on a college campus (other than in janitorial postitions) is a travesty. That they graduated...But hey, it's wrong that kids feel entitled to things without having to earn them...
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I think I detect a bit of a dichotomy: we should have high expectations, but when "my little darling" fails to make the grade, then these standards are crap.
You can't bitch about some child feeling entitled to material goodies without working for them if you condone a school system that makes him/her feel entitled to "self esteem", "social promotion", etc., whether he/she does the work or not. You want them to learn to work for things, just make them work to advance from grade to grade.
I pay taxes; I vote. Here's what I demand: if the kid can't do 8th grade work, he/she doesn't go to the 9th grade. If we wind up with 20 year old 8th graders, that's fine with me. Rather than paying for a school system that attracts people for the "extras," I want to support a school system that sometimes causes people to move away because their "little darling" can't compete at our high level.
A couple of years ago, I walked into a conversation among some co-workers who couldn't solve their kids' 8th grade math work. It was a simple problem involving two unknowns and two equations. Both were easy to define and solve: I did it in my head and wrote it doen for them. Two college graduates couldn't solve this simple system of equations.
I have *ZERO* respect for (and willingness to financially support) the system that passed these people into high school. (I do vote.) I have less than zero respect for the school system that allowed them to graduate from high school. That they were even allowed on a college campus (other than in janitorial postitions) is a travesty. That they graduated...But hey, it's wrong that kids feel entitled to things without having to earn them...
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 45,697
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From: Mish-she-gan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dean
There are quite a few things that come to mind:
A. Higher pay for teachers to attract and retain quality people.
B. Institute much more rigorous and competitive teacher education programs with substantially higher academic requirements. (I'm tired of talking to "Biology teachers" who couldn't find their asses with both hands and a flashlight.)
C. Downsize the administrative work force of public schools.
There are quite a few things that come to mind:
A. Higher pay for teachers to attract and retain quality people.
B. Institute much more rigorous and competitive teacher education programs with substantially higher academic requirements. (I'm tired of talking to "Biology teachers" who couldn't find their asses with both hands and a flashlight.)
C. Downsize the administrative work force of public schools.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,280
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From: knoxville, TN
Red, Dean, et al...
I also work with post-grad students from all over the country, so I will agree that there is no regional bias. I also agree that public schools are expected to take on too many parental responsabilities.
While I believe that re-structuring schools and paying teachers better is a good start, I think it only address a symptom and doesn't address the root problem. In my opinion, many people of "this generation" lack personal ambition. There is sense of achievement one gains when they face a challenge (whether that is the area of academics or personal life) and conquer it. Instead, they choose to cheat, lie or give up, altogether, rather than buckle down and work. I believe this attitude is fostered by their parents from a young age i.e. if the child fails a test, then it must be the teachers fault, not the 20hrs they played X-box.
I also work with post-grad students from all over the country, so I will agree that there is no regional bias. I also agree that public schools are expected to take on too many parental responsabilities.
While I believe that re-structuring schools and paying teachers better is a good start, I think it only address a symptom and doesn't address the root problem. In my opinion, many people of "this generation" lack personal ambition. There is sense of achievement one gains when they face a challenge (whether that is the area of academics or personal life) and conquer it. Instead, they choose to cheat, lie or give up, altogether, rather than buckle down and work. I believe this attitude is fostered by their parents from a young age i.e. if the child fails a test, then it must be the teachers fault, not the 20hrs they played X-box.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,296
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From: Delaware, OH
I'd just like to add one more comment, regarding the comparisons of the opportunities today versus the 50's and 60's: I suspect that if the young graduate looking for opportunities is a woman or African-American, they might feel that they have more opportunities than their parents or grandparents.
The "good old days" were better for some than for others...
The "good old days" were better for some than for others...
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,087
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From: Dry Branch
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RedY2KS2k
I'd just like to add one more comment, regarding the comparisons of the opportunities today versus the 50's and 60's: I suspect that if the young graduate looking for opportunities is a woman or African-American, they might feel that they have more opportunities than their parents or grandparents.
I'd just like to add one more comment, regarding the comparisons of the opportunities today versus the 50's and 60's: I suspect that if the young graduate looking for opportunities is a woman or African-American, they might feel that they have more opportunities than their parents or grandparents.
