[QUOTE]Originally posted by Smokee
Well, good luck to you. Long hair was probably my most rebellious act in my youth. Didn't smoke, didn't drink, didn't do drugs and I credit my parents for being exemplary.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FF2Skip
Valentine!

 

Uhhh, I just re-read what I typed after reading your post, Red. Obviously, I gave the wrong impression from my last post. I'm at work and was continually pulled away from post. As my previous post reads, I disagree with myself! It was a rare occasion to have laid a hand on my children. Those "reminders" were only issued after the action/consequence were explained. This served two purposes. One, it ensured that the child knew why he/she was being punished and what should have been done. Two, it definitely allowed enough time to pass that a spanking was not performed out of rage/anger on my part. Funny, should my children do something wrong now, the words, "You disappointed me," ring straight through to their hearts.

Oh well, it has been nice discussing this topic. It is definitely on ethat could go on for some time. Perhaps I will stop in from time-to-time. Many threads nowadays are filled with either idle chit-chat; emoticons or inflated egos. And V-Girl, tell Jim

 

I have been at work all day and have not yet had the chance to read the entire thread. I confess, I have only gotten about halfway through, I am just about up to silvershadows post, but I do want to comment on a few things.

Red, you speak about the decline of society and it degenerative state. Maybe, or maybe its just change. That was exactly the point I was trying to make to my wife. She too saw it as decline yet somehow I think that some of what we call decline may be our refusal to accept change. I agree that no society/government has stood the test of time, but ours is still young. Perhaps what I see as flexiblility and you see as decline will help our society to survive. The flexible branch bending in the wind as opposed to the rigid branch that snaps.

You also speak of the optimism that is now gone. I too have read history, and I know that people have almost always felt that the future for their kids was bright. Myself, my wife, all of our friends and everyone I know was brought up like that. The future was always going to be better. The only time that attitude changed was in times of war and economic crisis. Yes, there was pessimism during the depression, and during WWII, but the period immediately following WWII was a period of great optimism. Only during recessions did people feel that their kids would have hard future. I think this is more related to the economy than to any possible decline in society. Certainly, during the 90s people were optimistic.

Skip you mention the $100 shoes. I don't know. I don't think that they're worth the money either, but I'm not sure that is what is to blame for the failure of some kids. I think if parents get other things right, the price of the shoes is unimportant. Price shouldn't be the criteria.

I tend to agree with Smokee with reference to the hair. I have two teenagers living at home and there are many things that I don't like but that I tolerate. You need to understand that our children live within a social circle that is far different than our own. Do I impose my likes on my child on issues like hair and cause them to be a outcasts among their friends? What have I accomplished? Especially when the topic is somthing like hair or clothing styles. There are more important issues.

Finallly, you question girls calling a boy and state that it should be the other way around? Why? Other than the fact that it was done that way in the past, why is this a problem or an issue? Maybe, the problem is just being able to accept change.

 

My kids (two boys, 5 and 8) are still young, so I can't comment yet on the generation gap thing. At this point in their lives, I feel very in tune with what they're going through, and I feel I can communicate with them. I don't sense them being different in any major way from my generation.

They do have much less angst. I think that's a tribute to my wife and me, as much as the times. Someone mentioned Sputnik earlier, and the advent of the space race and particularly the threat of ICBMs (nuclear extinction) were a major source of angst in my youth. Terrorism doesn't hold a candle to the cold war (IMO).

Anyway, I think it's harder nowadays to challenge children and light the spark, so to speak. It seems as though public school education in the US is teaching to the lowest common denominator, and good kids aren't as challenged as they were when I was a kid. Maybe that's a regional thing.

 

My 2 cents and that may all it's worth because I do not have any experience...ie kids.

They want an immediate payoff...no waiting. Our society has so much more technology that things need to be available immediately. Remember the 1200 buad modem, how many of us would have the patience to use one of those today...anyone out there reading this thread with an acoustic coupler ??????

I think kids come into life with this technology all around them so they think it is normal - put a teen on a pc with a 1200 baud modem and I bet he/she is bored in a matter of minutes. Give them high speed access....and then they are getting into trouble swapping files, etc. We (the "older" generation - ps I'm not vintage yet!) have seen this technology evolve so we have more patience because we remember the acoustic coupler! But, NO WAY would I use it today and I would also say that my patience would end quickly if I had to use a 1200 baud modem to read this board.

So, I am not sure if kids are lazy or unmotivated but rather unaccustomed to having to wait for a payoff - whatever it that payoff might be. I also think this fits right into Red MX5s post about our generation causing the next generation to be what it is...Each generation causes this "difference" between generations to further highlight itself. Technology may be acting as a catalyst to this process.

BTW, I used technology above but you could use anything....

Cars - V8s in the 80s were not producing 200hp, today you get 240hp out of a 4 cylinder - many argue it's not enough...more bang please.

etc, etc...

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
It seems as though public school education in the US is teaching to the lowest common denominator, and good kids aren't as challenged as they were when I was a kid.

 

^ another example of immediate payoff....

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RED MX5

 

I'm not really sure what this thread is about. It's interesting, but seems to have gone in several different directions. I guess there is a strong majority that feel that the attitudes of todays young people is a result of how the parents raised them, or, said another way, the attitudes could be improved with proper raising. The undertone is that folks did it right in past generations and we have gotten worse at it over the years.

I have some trouble with many of the thoughts expressed here. I remember my parents and the other parents of my childhood friends. Dads would go to work in the morning and get home at 5 or 6 to eat dinner and then work around the yard and house. Most families had 4 or more kids (10 and 12 kids was considered big back then. 4 or 5 was the norm). I didn't see the dads spending time with the kids like I do now. I used to see older children raising the younger children. I used to hear mothers yelling at the kids for just about anything and telling them to get out of the house.

Now I see the soccer moms and hockey dads with two kids practically living the kid's lives with them. I'm not sure how we screwed it up, but I don't think all of the advice or opinion above is correct. Did any of you really pay less attention to your kids than your parents paid to you?

I'm a strong believer that genetics plays about 80% of the part in who your child will be. Yet everything above seems to talk about society and family. I think society's limited part in the general malaise of our youth is the relatively comfortable, unchallenging "world" we live in today. Our kids wanted for nothing and really didn't need to achieve to make a better life for themselves. There was no challenge.

I think we over-parented our kids and didn't let them struggle and find their own way. Who remembers "going out to play with my freinds?" That's what I told my mother every weekend and every day during the summer. I bet most of you did too. Did your own kids "go out to play with their friends" or did you drive them to play groups, sports practices, school activities, scouts, dance, gymnastics, and a bunch of other structured activities with adult supervision where you coached or helped or watched while another parent instructed your child? I think our kid's lives were over-structured

Well, that's what it comes down to for me. Now my 20 year old who dropped out of college after one semester is struggling and making his way the hard way. The one thing that I notice that all his activities have in common now; they have no structure.