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Insects and evolution

Old Nov 28, 2005 | 06:33 PM
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Default Insects and evolution

Dean,

This is for you (and everybody else) from today's New York Times. Insects and Evolution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/29/sc...29inse.html?hp
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 01:08 PM
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Only a liberal rag like the NYT would push an idea as off-the-wall as evolution.


Thanks for the link.
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dean,Nov 29 2005, 06:08 PM
Only a liberal rag like the NYT would push an idea as off-the-wall as evolution.


Thanks for the link.
I've been looking for this one (off and on) all day and the only disappointment I have is that I didn't need the online dictionary.
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by raymo19,Nov 29 2005, 07:34 PM
I've been looking for this one (off and on) all day and the only disappointment I have is that I didn't need the online dictionary.
We can't have that now. Punctuated equilibrium vs. neo Darwinistic gradualism: which is it? The Modern Synthesis: boon or bane? Feel free to Google the night away.
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 04:35 PM
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Serious question for the scientists out there: The article said "When insects later evolved the ability to fly, ..." How did the original (non-flying) insects "evolve" to have wings? I can understand how a whale, being a mammal, can evolve to have flippers instead of hands. To me, "evolve" means to change, but sprouting wings from nothing is not change (unless the wings originated as something else and then changed into wings), it is a revolution or disruption.

I am not trying to attack evolution, I just want to understand. Thanks.
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dean,Nov 29 2005, 06:08 PM
Only a liberal rag like the NYT would push an idea as off-the-wall as evolution.

Geez Dean,

Right about now, I would be willing to bet that Rob feels like you drove a steak through his heart!
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by matt_inva,Nov 29 2005, 09:55 PM
Geez Dean,

Right about now, I would be willing to bet that Rob feels like you drove a steak through his heart!
Not at all.
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteS2k,Nov 29 2005, 09:35 PM
Serious question for the scientists out there: The article said "When insects later evolved the ability to fly, ..." How did the original (non-flying) insects "evolve" to have wings? I can understand how a whale, being a mammal, can evolve to have flippers instead of hands. To me, "evolve" means to change, but sprouting wings from nothing is not change (unless the wings originated as something else and then changed into wings), it is a revolution or disruption.

I am not trying to attack evolution, I just want to understand. Thanks.
Insect wings didn't evolve from nothing. Nothing evolves from nothing.
The evolution of wings was a very slow, gradual process, not a miraculous overnight change. No one knows exactly from what or how they evolved (fossils of soft bodied organisms such as insects are rare), but there are two basic hypotheses proposed

1. Wings evolved from extensions of the gills of the aquatic ancestors of insects (much like jaws evolved from the first gill arch of the agnathans = jawless fish and ancestors to the jawed fishes).

2. Wings evolved from the formation of extensions of the body/exoskeleton.

The gill hypothesis is much more probable and similar in mechanism as your whale flipper example. It's also better supported by genetic evidence and is widely accepted among mainstream bugologists.
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by matt_inva,Nov 29 2005, 09:55 PM
Geez Dean,

Right about now, I would be willing to bet that Rob feels like you drove a steak through his heart!
Ribeye or filet?
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Old Nov 29, 2005 | 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dean,Nov 29 2005, 10:30 PM
Ribeye or filet?
Actually, I'd prefer a big T-bone. I'm kind of hungry tonight. (Don't forget the baked potato).
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