S2000 Vintage Owners Knowledge, age and life experiences represent the members of the Vintage Owners

The Killer Angels

Thread Tools
 
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 04:38 PM
  #181  
Vitito's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 28 2006, 08:23 PM
Buford seems the true professional, "get the job done" kind of soldier. Stuart seems the actor, the charleton.
Stuart went "off track" prior to the battle, vanity, he failed to do his duty, which was to locate and report on the movements of the Union Army. He let his commander down, and the whole army, with his "joyriding". Was Longstreet correct, should Lee have "stomped" him?
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 04:51 PM
  #182  
Vitito's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Legal Bill,Aug 27 2006, 09:03 PM
John Buford. From the moment you meet him you know he is a professional soilder. From the minute he learns that he has run into the confederate skirmishers, he knows the gravity of the situation. He strikes me as man discouraged by his superiors. He has little faith in them and that opinion seems to be the result of a number of disapointments in the field as well as his personal assessments. What else strikes you about him?
Buford's instincts were excellent. He knew that the fight for the high ground would determine the outcome of the battle. Some say it determined the outcome of the war.
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 05:11 PM
  #183  
ralper's Avatar
Gold Member (Premium)
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
Likes: 1,639
From: Randolph, NJ
Default

Originally Posted by Vitito,Aug 28 2006, 07:38 PM
Stuart went "off track" prior to the battle, vanity, he failed to do his duty, which was to locate and report on the movements of the Union Army. He let his commander down, and the whole army, with his "joyriding". Was Longstreet correct, should Lee have "stomped" him?
The interesting dynamic here is that Stuart is Lee's favorite son. Very much like his loyalty to Virginia, Lee's loyalty to Stuart will prevent him from taking action. Is this a good thing?
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 05:26 PM
  #184  
Vitito's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 28 2006, 08:23 PM
Buford seems the true professional, "get the job done" kind of soldier. Stuart seems the actor, the charleton.
After the Mexican War, Lee was named commandant of West Point. His favorite cadet, Jeb Stuart. A few years later, just prior to the Civil War, Lieutenant Stuart (wearing blue) was Colonel Lee's (wearing blue) choice to lead the raid against John Brown's "gang" at Harper's Ferry. Both served in the raid at the pleasure of President Buchanon, some more irony. Stuart could have been easily shot by Brown's men. Stuart was an inspirational and courageous leader.

Prior to Gettysburg, Lee (J. Shaara) described Stuart's performance as indicated in GODS AND GENERALS:

Just before the Battle of Second Manassas (Bull Run):

Lee: "General Stuart has proven himself very valuable again."

Longstreet: "I do wish...begging your pardon, General, but he needs to be kept on a shorter leash. He has a great love of headlines. It may cause some problems."

Lee: "General Stuart has his ways...certainly different from our ways, you and me. But he is young, and he inspires the men. And if the newspapers love him, then he can inspire the people as well. There is no harm in that."
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 05:38 PM
  #185  
Vitito's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 28 2006, 09:11 PM
The interesting dynamic here is that Stuart is Lee's favorite son. Very much like his loyalty to Virginia, Lee's loyalty to Stuart will prevent him from taking action. Is this a good thing?
Lee does take action with Stuart, as we'll see. Stuart is a man, makes mistakes. Are Stuart's failures the cause for the confederacy's defeat at Gettysburg? Does a good leader "stomp" or court-martial a General for such a mistake? What effect will Stuart's "court-martial" have on the army? Particuarly after it lost it's best field commander just prior to Gettysburg, Stonewall Jackson (May, 1863)?

"...And Thou knowest O Lord, that when Thou didst decide that the Confederacy should not succeed, Thou hadst first to remove Thy servant, Stonewall Jackson."

Who is ultimately responsible for the actions of the Army of Northern Virginia?
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 07:26 PM
  #186  
S1997's Avatar
Former Moderator
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Former Moderator
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,122
Likes: 629
From: Houston/Durango
Default

Seems that Lee did have some feet of clay, didn't he. I think Lee himself will have something to say about that after the failed charge on day three.
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 07:34 PM
  #187  
ralper's Avatar
Gold Member (Premium)
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
Likes: 1,639
From: Randolph, NJ
Default

Originally Posted by Vitito,Aug 28 2006, 08:38 PM
Lee does take action with Stuart, as we'll see. Stuart is a man, makes mistakes. Are Stuart's failures the cause for the confederacy's defeat at Gettysburg? Does a good leader "stomp" or court-martial a General for such a mistake? What effect will Stuart's "court-martial" have on the army? Particuarly after it lost it's best field commander just prior to Gettysburg, Stonewall Jackson (May, 1863)?


Vito,

That is an interesting question, but were Stuarts actions simply mistakes? I think not. His "joyriding" in this case seems more than just mistakes. I think Lee should have seen this more clearly and reigned him in.

I don't want to jump too far ahead but the episode with Stuart offering his sword to Lee seems insincere at best except that Lee either doesn't see or doesn't want to see it.
Reply
Old Aug 28, 2006 | 09:28 PM
  #188  
paS2K's Avatar
Gold Member (Premium)
25 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 18,885
Likes: 33
From: Philly (Narberth)
Default

Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 28 2006, 10:34 PM
....That is an interesting question, but were Stuarts actions simply mistakes? I think not. His "joyriding" in this case seems more than just mistakes. .....
Keep in mind that Stuart's escapades in Pennsylvania would have a bad effect on the fragile morale in Washington.....where few would have believed the bravado of the southern troops....tramping north of the M-D line.

Yes, Stuart was seeking headlines but didn't the Army of Northern VA need that boost from both cavalry and infantry?
Reply
Old Aug 29, 2006 | 02:59 AM
  #189  
ralper's Avatar
Gold Member (Premium)
20 Year Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 33,171
Likes: 1,639
From: Randolph, NJ
Default

Originally Posted by paS2K,Aug 29 2006, 12:28 AM
Yes, Stuart was seeking headlines but didn't the Army of Northern VA need that boost from both cavalry and infantry?
Possibly so, but I'd have thought that they'd have more benefitted from his doing his job.
Reply
Old Aug 29, 2006 | 03:09 AM
  #190  
valentine's Avatar
Registered User
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 22,620
Likes: 867
From: The (S)Low Country
Default

Originally Posted by ralper,Aug 29 2006, 05:59 AM
Possibly so, but I'd have thought that they'd have more benefitted from his doing his job.
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:19 AM.