I agree, but that's the ideal. The reality is very different.

 

I have been off grid for a week or so and have not caught up to the news (which has been really refreshing)

I copied this from an older post I did thinking this might apply. I tailored the original to some of the newer members; I think the experience from members here would see many of the observations as a no brainer.



It seems that from time to time, the issue of cops becoming involved in the life and times of S owners rears its head. Sooner or later we all have encounters with LEOs (law enforcement officers). Some of us S owners are LEOs. I think it is important to reflect on that fact of life and perhaps mentally prepare for that event. A bad encounter will usually lead to bad results. I responded in another thread (Is my 03 AP1 Totaled) and thought I might as well throw this subject out there for review and discussion. I am not claiming to be the last word; I know many of us, from experience, profession, or hard knocks can contribute.

Lets start with the red, blue, and bright white lights filling your rear view mirror. Think about the officers perspective just for a moment. The pullover of a vehicle can be extremely dangerous for a cop. A cop is human and just like you, wants to come home to what he values and loves at the end of the day. Show him/ her that you understand that by your actions. This in itself will go a long way to mitigate the circumstances of the pullover. What to do? Turn off all sound/music/engine. Lower both windows. If it is dark, turn on inside lights. Get your license, registration, proof of insurance (depends on state law) out and put them with both hands outstretched on the dash. Leave them there. Do not make any sudden moves or reach for something with the officers approaching. If you have anyone else in the car, have them be quiet and put their hands out in front in plain view. Follow directions from the officers. Be polite. Do not say anything more than what is required. If you need to get into your pants, reach under the seat, or car compartment, tell the officers what your intentions are. The police will understand immediately that you are not an average pullover and you understand the situation. That can be a big plus.

Sometimes in the initial stages of a pullover, it can be a subjective matter in reading the situation, the cops attitude, and other factors to create the environment to get off and go on your merry way. However, once things become objective the situation is completely different. You are going to get a ticket or asked to get out of the car for further review and or arrest. Perhaps you are already on the side of the road after an accident. Keep in mind cops are generally your friends. However, they have a job to do and that is to gather evidence for crimes committed. If you are on the suspect end that means cops are not your friends. YOU become your own worst enemy. Why? Most people unwittingly supply the rope for the courts to hang them with. Cops can and will (I also mean the courts) use everything you say against you BEFORE they read you your rights. By the time they read you your rights or write a ticket, the damage has been done. You have an obligation to identify yourself and supply certain information: registration, insurance, etc. All other questions are dangerous. Even innocent sounding answers are damming. ("I was running late....." or " I only had a couple of beers".......) Remember, the cop is trying to gather info for a conviction/probable cause. Even if you think the situation or evidence is plainly obvious, do not make a comment. (What is that beer can on the floor? Your eyes are bloodshot. Had you taken anything? Smoking something in the car?)

I have read a number of forum members feel all cops are jerks. Yes, some can be real jerks. Many respond in kind when faced with jerk drivers. More often its the drivers/public that are the ones who are in denial and behave poorly. Cops are people too and if they have the ability to respond in kind to jerks, they will only gladly comply. It all comes out in the wash. The wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind to powder. Do cops lie? Perhaps you feel they do. However, once in court you are under oath. Its a big deal. Cops know this. They are held to a high standard. Unless you are Bill Clinton, an individual will be guilty of perjury for lying under oath. Big consequences. During any proceedings, you or your counsel should ask the right questions the right way so you will get the answers you need to defend yourself.

Example: 3 guys out drinking. Flat tire. Cop pulls up. Asks who was driving. No comment from the 3. Asks who was drinking. No comment from 3. Cop threatens to arrest all 3 on DUI. Max pressure. All 3 make no comment. All 3 arrested DUI. Outcome? All 3 acquitted. Why? No evidence any ONE was actually driving. You know it was one of the three but it cannot be shown beyond a doubt one in particular was driving. If one of the 3 says something; its all over. Conviction.

I had a case in which an individual was standing next to his car talking with friends in the middle of the day. Police happen by and question him. Had a couple of beers with lunch. Tells that to the cop. Cop asks him if that was his car. Yep. Asks if he had been driving. Yes, he says. (He was not thinking he had too much, just a couple of beers with Mexican food) He was arrested for DUI and was not even behind the wheel. All based on his unnecessary comments to police. Tried to "back door" the case with the court and get a "wet reckless", that is plead to reckless charge and not have a DUI. Unfortunately he was a high profile individual and MADD went after him to set an example; we could not go that route. He was not convicted of driving under the influence but was convicted of driving with .08 BAC. (Yes there are separate laws in California; will not get into the reasons why). The point is this entire affair came about because the guy opened his mouth and gave the police the ammunition to arrest him. If he had said "no comment" that would have been the end of it.

Be polite, be courteous but do NOT make comments. Just make no comment. Never curse or use foul language. NEVER! It does not matter what the cops say or do. That will be used against you later. Juries have no sympathy for foul mouthed jerks. Do NOT lie. If you are caught in a lie, the court will wonder what else you are lying about. If asked to give permission to allow a search of your car, say NO. The police will put pressure on you and ask if you have something to hide. Maybe you don't have anything to hide. Remember YOU DO NOT HAVE TO. The cops are only looking for anything to nail you. It does NOT help you in any way. Don't let them. Be nice about it, just say you don't want to. Thats it. No reason. You just don't want to. They may tell you they will get a search warrant. Don't give in. No comment. If they have probable cause and want to go through the process to get one, they will. Perhaps the circumstances of the pullover will be inadmissible. Don't give anyone any extra ammunition to shoot you down. You never know how things will play out.

If you are in an accident and some lunatic is accusing you of all kinds of things, make your desired/required statements to police but do not respond to the idiot. Do not argue the other person. It will come out in the wash later. If it is just you and the other person exchanging information before the police come (if they do) don't admit anything to the other person. Do not chat for the sake of chatting.

Should you fight something in court? Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on the violations and what the negative outcome of those convictions on your record. You need to weigh the consequences of one of those violations sticking and how it relates to your insurance, car, and occupation. With that in mind, you may want to represent yourself, if you think you can, or go the route of hiring an attorney. Yes, an attorney will cost you but may reduce the "price" of your "event" later.

I am adding the following in an edit.
One of the best, sure fire ways to avoid problems is to avoid creating problems. Don't play with the odds. The days of a cop telling you he will follow you home to make sure you make it are gone forever. The consequences of driving under the influence are severe. The above comments were made in the spirit of protecting your rights and preserving your way of life. It was not an endorsement of how to break the law and get away with it.
With that said, remember you are not special, you are not immune or superman. If you take chances sooner or later you are going to be out of luck. If someone is hurt, you are going to prison and your life will forever change. I knew of an engineer, great job, wife, kids, upscale house, BMW, etc, who had a couple beers and was in an accident he did not cause. Three years in state prison. You do not want to go to prison. Don't think pot or other drugs are not the same as alcohol and can't be measured for enforcement. You ARE impaired. If you drive that way, you are an idiot with a problem. A few years back, if I was driving in traffic/ unfamiliar territory/ night/ two lane road/ Friday night etc, I would really limit what I had. Personally, I now have nothing when I am going to drive. Its not worth it. What I do have is peace of mind, in that regard. Please just spend a little time thinking about the consequences: legal, financial, occupational, life, and death. Are a couple of drinks/bowls REALLY that important to you when you drive? Have good times with friends, just don't ruin somebody's life, including yours, by driving. Be careful when someone else is hauling your carcass around too!

Good luck and safe driving.
This post has been edited by cosmomiller: 21 June 2013 - 09:39 AM

 

Cosmo, my last interaction was for a moving violation. 52 in a 35. it's at the base of a slightly winding grade with no houses.
Next town over, both communities are what one could describe as rural and economically very comfortable, not much happens here.
I'm driving a a recent model Mercedes E550. I'm dressed for work, executive casual.
White, near 60, overweight, cetainly not a physical threat. I've done it enough times to not be flippant or an sarcastic.


Based on his demeanor and actions you would have thought I was a suspected drug dealer, gun running, child raper.
The guy was just a flaming A-hole. Maybe he was having a bad day, maybe his idea of a fantasy job was daily gunfights in a big city instead of chasing down runaway horses and despots like me.
I was close to driving to the station and having a chat with his chief.
If cops want respect, be respectful.

 

Great..... just driving buy a cop and they can see everything about you....

Here comes Big Brother!

 

The description of your vehicle and yourself may surface an ire for those who are lessor. A certain percentage may envision you as a scofflaw and above following laws meant for mere commoners.
Be careful when driving out there.

gary

 

Kind’a reminds me of Orwell’s ‘’1984” about totalitarianism. Which was an ultimately secure time to live.

gary

 

I believe that was an extremely isolated incident and in my opinion not worthy of the efforts that were described to prevent it.

gary
[/quote]

He was also not driving the car. So "legally" he didn't have to provide any documentation to the cops unless he was a suspect in a crime. Which being black, I guess is considered circumstantial evidence of that in the cops mind. But in that case, he should have been asked to automatically step out of the car after the cop states the reason for giving that demand.

My assessment, the cop failed miserably at each step of the way in this case, and at minimum he should be fired without pay, never to assume the position of authority again. However due to his negligence in training or of mind and someone lost their life as a result, a criminal pursuit by the family members would not be uncalled for one bit and they should receive some amount of restitution by the state. Has anyone heard what has come about from this officer in that regard? Or are they still "investigating"?

 

Kind’a reminds me of Orwell’s ‘’1984” about totalitarianism. Which was an ultimately secure time to live.

gary
[/quote]
It's a good thing that our government is totally incompetent because they already have all the info they need to create a Big Brother, 1984 type environment. A smart chip in the drivers license and registration would only give them more data that they wouldn't know what to do with, but it would make life a bit safer for the motorist pulled over by the cops. And maybe for the cop too.

Every time you pay your taxes, register your car, sign up to vote, use your EZ-Pass, file for Social Security and etc. you're supplying data to the government. Lucky for us they can't figure out how to use it.

 

Did anyone else notice in the video of the man shot by the cop, he is sitting in the right seat but it looks like the steering wheel is in front of him? Like the picture was reversed or taken in a mirror?

 

Thanks to all for for contributions to this thread. It certainly gives all of us (and family members) a good reason to keep cool when we are pulled over.

The 28 y.o. son of a good friend graduated last Friday from the Oklahoma Police Academy. I will be seeing him at the end of August (unfortunately for a memorial service for my friend, his father) and hope to ask him about his training in this "red" state with a large minority population. He is a big strong guy with a criminal justice background, and has worked for a few years as a prison guard and parole officer...now making a step up in responsibility.

Feeling sorry about Jerry-MA's experience with a smart alec cope; I think that going back later to talk to his superior WOULD have been a good thing to do (since it was in a nearby area). Sounds like that cop needs a dose of professionalism.

My most recent ticket was a couple years ago on the interstate near Roanoke VA. I was driving our PRIUS and got a ticket for driving 75 when I missed a reduction of the limit from 65 to 55. What I do remember is how UNBELIEVABLY professional and polite the officer was; I think that I thanked him for his professionalism.