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Old 12-30-2004, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnydev,Dec 30 2004, 03:48 PM
So now let's look at some facts,
The US initially pledged $15 mm, then upped it another $20 mm for a total of $35mm. Meanwhile, the 25 nation EU had pledged a total of $4mm!
Please show me where you got that number from. This may have been an amount pledged by the EU from the central budget, but does certainly not reflect any individual country's pledge. I think Germany's initial pledge was for several million, currently upped to EUR 25 million (that's what, $35 million?), the same amount has been pledged by France, the UK is also somehwere in that neighborhood, and I think Spain is up to $50 million. And that's purely government money; I was just reading that private donations by the Brits have already reached $25 million as well.

And before your chest starts bursting, please show me how you get that "40% of foreign aid". Maybe if you add military aid and similar payments, but certainly not when you use the OECD definition of what foreign aid is.
Old 12-30-2004, 02:03 PM
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[QUOTE=Ulrich,Dec 30 2004, 02:20 PM]Please show me where you got that number from.
Old 12-30-2004, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnydev,Dec 30 2004, 06:03 PM
Could the US do more? Certainly. Could you and I do more? Certainly. When the contributions of individuals, businesses, the military and other non-monitary government aid is totaled, i'm guessing we will have a huge impact on the aid and rebuilding of the affected areas.
Old 12-30-2004, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnydev,Dec 30 2004, 04:48 PM
Yes Rob, let's look at what you said:
If you are going to pick up my sentence to quote it please have the courtesy to to quote the entire sentence (and paragraph), and not take a piece of it out of context as you have just done.

This is what I said:

I don't want to turn this political but I've just read that President Bush has said that the $35 million is only the beginning, yet even that amount seems very small to me. I think we could and should do better. I wish we would spend as much money helping people as we do fighting them.
Old 12-30-2004, 02:39 PM
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Take a look at the images of Indonesia before and after the tsunami. The death count is at 125K and the diseases haven't started taking their toll yet.

Ok--back to our regularly scheduled squabbling over who gives the most depending on what formula is used.
Old 12-30-2004, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ralper,Dec 30 2004, 03:25 PM
If you are going to pick up my sentence to quote it please have the courtesy to to quote the entire sentence (and paragraph), and not take a piece of it out of context as you have just done.

This is what I said:
Rob, it wasn't out of context. I didn't matter what you said after "I don't want this to turn political..." You could have commented on the bean harvest in Hungary, it didn't matter. This thread started as a forum for people to relate news, images, feelings and accounts of what happened. It changed to a political, "Is the US doing enough?" discussion. That's what Val commented on and I agreed with her.

I also think it's disingenuous of you to start a post with "I don't want this to turn political but..." IMO, yes you do - and it did. Then the usual suspects who agree with your politics piled on and the ususal suspects who disagree (like me) retorted.

The difference is that most of your political threads start that way. This one did not.

Anyways Rob I don't mean for this to head south. I have and continue to have a great deal of respect for you. You are one of the more highly regarded contributors here and rightfuly so. I look forward to our future political debates...on another thread...I promise, no more politics here
Old 12-30-2004, 03:09 PM
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READ THIS!! POLITIC FREE

This is an account from a So Cal S2ki member who was caught in the tsunami...
We were staying on a small island north of Phuket.

When the wave hit we ran to the largest structure on the island, a 2-story cement building. When the water kept rising we broke through the thin cement shingles and took refuge on the roof. We thought we would be okay, but the water kept rising, and the roof came off the building.

We were floating on that roof for about 30-45 seconds, going about 20-30 MPH. It was heading into the trees on the edge of the jungle, and when it crashed into the trees we were thrown into the water. Everyone on the roof went under, and when Nida (g/f) and I came up we were both able to get ahold of a tree. I actually held on to a fishing net that wrapped around one of the trees. During this time I kept thinking "what do I do next to keep alive?" and owe my life to a combination of good luck and quick thinking.

After a few minutes I swam to the tree that Nida was holding on to, then we climbed into the tree and waited there for about 2 hours. We climbed down and gathered with the other survivors at a small water tower that wasn't destroyed. We noticed that two in our group were missing, and I went looking for them.

I found Nida's sister about 800-1000 yards back in the jungle, along with another couple and a baby. They were resort workers who had held on to and saved a foreign baby. They were afraid to walk in the water with the baby, but since they saw I made it in there they followed us out. We waded back though chest-deep water filled with filth and debris. The last 100 yards were really bad, and Nida's sister was in such pain that I wanted to get more hellp to get her out. I ran looking for others in the group to help, but they had left the water tower and the entire side of the island was empty. Later I found out that someone had a cell phone that worked, and they were told another wave could be coming, so they started heading for the other side of the island.

I went back to get Nida's and found that she had made more forward progress with the help of the couple that was with her. It took about 2 hours total to get her out. Later we found out had a fractured rib in addition to other injuries.
When we finally made it out of the jungle, a rescue boat was on shore. What timing!

This was definitely an experience to remember.
Old 12-30-2004, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnydev,Dec 30 2004, 07:06 PM
I promise, no more politics here
Fair enough. I agree. I'm sorry it went that way.

I heard that the death toll has risen to 120,000. It is hard for me to even comprehend a disaster of this magnitude. I've heard that the number of people who are at risk from disease, malnutrition, and all of the other horrors that accompany a disaster like this could easily double the death toll.

I also heard that there are tens of thousands of newly orphaned children who are in danger.

The news gets sadder and sadder.
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