What the Media Got Wrong
The hullabaloo over Army Spc. Thomas J. Wilson's question reveals far more about media bias, prejudice and ignorance than it does about the U.S. military and Iraq.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006029
Related article about limitations of adding armor:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/b...r/?id=110006024
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006029
Related article about limitations of adding armor:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/b...r/?id=110006024
Originally Posted by charlie,Dec 15 2004, 01:21 PM
yet another example of what some of us here knew all along.
Or that a draft is imminent
Originally Posted by mikes2k,Dec 15 2004, 02:31 PM
Knew what? that and I quote..... " the fact is no one anticipated the Baathist-Sunni insurgency, certainly not the U.S. military."
Or that a draft is imminent
Or that a draft is imminent

No one has questioned the Emperor's clothes...it's the subordinates and underlings that are getting the usual shaft!
Regardless of media bias...Rummy's answer.. then backpedalling.. then a different story the next day all shows the continued cavalier callous attitude of this administration.
Regardless of media bias...Rummy's answer.. then backpedalling.. then a different story the next day all shows the continued cavalier callous attitude of this administration.
Don't blame the media for delivering the message. The plain simple fact is that the real story is about the lack of "uparmored" humvees, not about the news reporting.
Blaming the media is nothing more than an attempt to confuse and distract from the real story.
Blaming the media is nothing more than an attempt to confuse and distract from the real story.
Originally Posted by charlie,Dec 15 2004, 12:51 PM
To the media, it was a dramatic revelation of Bush administration hypocrisy and incompetence: A lowly American GI courageously speaks truth to power, thus showing that the emperor has no clothes. But to this Marine veteran of the Iraq war, the hullabaloo over Army Spc. Thomas J. Wilson's question reveals far more about media bias, prejudice and ignorance than it does about the U.S. military and Iraq.


The reality is that Rumsfeld was caught entirely flat footed by this question. I personally find this somewhat bemusing since this cannot be the first time that Rumsfeld or the administration have heard grumblings that soldiers have been asking for more support from their leadership in the form of more people (to help shorten troop rotations) and equipment.
Whether the media made it seem like it was amazing that someone so junior spoke out to someone so high up the foodchain (it is amazingly rare, actually), the fact of the matter is what the media has brought to light more than anything is not that single incident, but the fact that the leadership within the DoD as well as at the White House has shown a significant disconnect with the tools of their foreign policy.
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Sorry, while the media frequently pick up a half baked story and run with it, they are flat on correct this time. Being a vet in PG 1 does not necessarily make one an expert on THIS campaign. There is virtually no comparison between the two. The bottom line is that NG and Reserve troops ARE poorly supplied and armored. Hmmm, perhaps the fact that spending on more armor has just been approved highlights the point that there were flaws.
Be thankful that Spc. Wilson was brave enough to speak up. Too many in the civilian sector pay little attention beyond a cursory glance (or perhaps to take the opportunity to make a ridiculous right wing OR left wing statement at the expense of fallen and wounded troops) to what is really happening in Iraq.
BTW - front line COMBAT troops are significantly better equipped; however the extended deployment and nature of this conflict (no front line, so rear echelon troops are as exposed as anyone else) has exposed our one flaw. We have the finest equipment, and some of the finest trained combat troops, but it thins out behind that in a protracted combat environment.
Be thankful that Spc. Wilson was brave enough to speak up. Too many in the civilian sector pay little attention beyond a cursory glance (or perhaps to take the opportunity to make a ridiculous right wing OR left wing statement at the expense of fallen and wounded troops) to what is really happening in Iraq.
BTW - front line COMBAT troops are significantly better equipped; however the extended deployment and nature of this conflict (no front line, so rear echelon troops are as exposed as anyone else) has exposed our one flaw. We have the finest equipment, and some of the finest trained combat troops, but it thins out behind that in a protracted combat environment.
glad some of you were not around when we stormed Normandy, sure you would find fault in that too, how many died in that one day? should we not have bombed from the air first? I think the troops were ill prepared for that as well. I think I see it clearly now...... it must be nice to have the privilege of being a monday morning quarterback.
I said it before.
40 years ago, the Army was deployed to run convoys up Highway 1 in Vietnam. The VC learned very quickly how vulnerable these deuce and a half and 5 ton trucks were, given the only armament was an exposed .50 caliber machine gun.After the ambush, the hostiles simply belended back into the local population. Our troops then scavenged scrap metal and surplus guns, more .50 cals, M-60's, even 7.62 mm miniguns (rapid firing gattling style guns used on Cobra gunships in in Hueys) and created the vaunted guntruck. Even lowly M151 Jeeps were uparmored and upgunned. Highway 1 was still dangerous but an attack was far more costly to the VC.
Flash forward, the HMMVV is deployed with thin metal doors and an exposed gun position. We're still using Deuce and and a half and five ton trucks equipped with a single exposed .50 caliber position and having our convoys attacked on Route 1 by hostile locals who can blend back into the local population.
Why were kits not available to up armor these vehicles? Why have there never been adequate convoy defense vehicles available?
Please, this is NOT Omaha Beach where there was a clear enemy, where there were clear plans of attack, where there was adequate planning, despite problems on the day of hte assault. 6 June 1944 was an overall success when the sun went down. Think how history would have viewed Montgomery and Eisenhower had the invasion been bogged down with no way forward and no way to be brought off the beach.
40 years ago, the Army was deployed to run convoys up Highway 1 in Vietnam. The VC learned very quickly how vulnerable these deuce and a half and 5 ton trucks were, given the only armament was an exposed .50 caliber machine gun.After the ambush, the hostiles simply belended back into the local population. Our troops then scavenged scrap metal and surplus guns, more .50 cals, M-60's, even 7.62 mm miniguns (rapid firing gattling style guns used on Cobra gunships in in Hueys) and created the vaunted guntruck. Even lowly M151 Jeeps were uparmored and upgunned. Highway 1 was still dangerous but an attack was far more costly to the VC.
Flash forward, the HMMVV is deployed with thin metal doors and an exposed gun position. We're still using Deuce and and a half and five ton trucks equipped with a single exposed .50 caliber position and having our convoys attacked on Route 1 by hostile locals who can blend back into the local population.
Why were kits not available to up armor these vehicles? Why have there never been adequate convoy defense vehicles available?
Please, this is NOT Omaha Beach where there was a clear enemy, where there were clear plans of attack, where there was adequate planning, despite problems on the day of hte assault. 6 June 1944 was an overall success when the sun went down. Think how history would have viewed Montgomery and Eisenhower had the invasion been bogged down with no way forward and no way to be brought off the beach.







