I'm going off what I've read and been told by Sal, himself... I basically asked if it's okay to apply Z-x over a surface freshly prepped with, say, Meguiar's #7 Glaze or 3M PI3000 SMR, to which he replied the bonding of the Zaino would be compromised. By how much, I don't know - I guess it depends on a number of factors. He recommended washing the car after SMR.

I don't have any particular knowledge to back this up, but it SEEMS like it makes sense - especially if a product you're using (glaze, smr) has fillers or oils in it that don't buff off completely - the synthetic doesn't have a clean paint surface to bond to, so it's bonding (if it does) to a product that will come off on its own in short time.

The carnauba, on the other hand doesn't "bond" like a synthetic (as I understand it) - it does 'cure' in a way, but contains solvents much like any glaze or SMR but sort of seals in whatever's underneath... I may be completely off, but if I understand these products correctly and their recommended use instructions, this is how it works.

For example, Meg #7 recommends following up with a carnauba-based wax, 3M SMR recommends following with a glaze, which recommends following with a carnauba-based wax... As far as the integrity of the sealant over a glaze or smr, well... I just take what the vendor tells me

As it is, I like a good coat of AIO as a base for any wax or sealant.

 

My point is the Mr. Zaino's explanation of his product is rather cryptic. Honestly, when I read that Sal recommended that you WASH a car after using an SMR, it only further reinforces my suspicions that this fellow isn't quite the guru everyone wants to believe that he is.

Think about it... Really. After spending time claying, polishing, then SMRing your surface to get a relatively swirl-free finish, washing your car is like ruining a virgin surface. Soap itself leaves residue on your paint. So Sal Zaino is saying you basically cannot prep the surface of your paint before applying his product. Washing your car after surface prep is about the stupidest and most counterintuitive thing you can do. No matter how carefully you wash your car (read: most expensive plush wash mitt, softest soap, softest water, cleanest towel, leaf blower), you are going to induce a small amount of micromarring that you just worked so hard to remove. How is it that products like WG, Menzernz FMJ, #20, #21, EX-P, and other sealants work very well with fully prepped surfaces?

Some of the advice the Zaino gives is true. But you really have to learn to take his advice with a grain of salt. His train of thought when answering your question probably never even touched on the possibility that you could do more damage washing an unprotected fully prepped surface. I'm sorry, I gotta say this: WHO THE HECK WASHES A FULLY PREPPED SURFACE?! Come on, animeS2K. I know you think Zaino is great product, but you really have to sit down and think about the advice he gives you before following it so blindly. There are so many problems with some of the advice that the Zaino website produces that I don't even know where to start. Layering, cotton towels, wiping a surface vertically and longitudinally, ZFX (biggest BS that this man profits form... $20 bucks for less than an ounce of that food coloring that you think helps your Z2 or Z5 dry faster), etc etc etc.

Bottom line: Some Zaino product work well, but the entire Zaino system does not improve the surface on which it is applied. For $80-100, you're getting a lot of crap that you don't need. Sal Zaino himself hasn't proven that he knows what exactly is going on with detailing. I'm curious what his background is. Is he the chemist thats formulating his products? Is he a mere car junkie like us that decided to start up a company? Does he have a formal education? Honestly.

Ok I'm done.

 

hehehe, I'm glad you got that out, Secret. Really, I'd been waiting for it for some time now

I haven't followed his advice to wash a car after SMR and agree with you on the issue of introducing marring that you've just removed. I used to think Zaino was the end-all, but since I've gotten more into detailing, I've found other products that I like very much, work faster, are cheaper, etc. FWIW, I've used Z-x over #7, over SMR, over AIO and may even throw it over some #80, but I have a feeling it's going towards the back of my kit...

Of course, Zaino won't help an unprepped surface, I never thought it would (ok, well, I bought into the whole z5 deal). Zaino is good at what it does - provide a nice, reflective surface (not necessarily deep or warm) and lasts for a good long while.

I have also been curious as to his background. If you've ever spoken with him, he sounds like he grew up in a small neighborhood in Jersey - not that THAT itself is any indication of anything, but I have a feeling he has chemists that he employs and he himself is neither a detailer nor a chemist.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Back to your regularly-scheduled programming.

 

You guys aren't hijacking the thread! it is all good stuff..

I finally got the nerve to try the PC.. I used the white LakeCountry pad, put lots of #9 swirl remover and did the hood. My car really is not that bad at all, however, I did find the the light short swirl marks did not come out 100%. To be honest I don't see a whole lot of difference before and after. So.. because I was nervous I chose the white pad. Maybe should have used the yellow, but as it was I didn't know how long I could work the paint. I tell you I was scared shitless.. LOL

 

hehehe not to worry!
Have you read the tutorials and such over at www.autopia-carcare.com and searched through the wealth of knowledge at www.autopia.org? You should feel very confident after looking through there.

I was lucky enough to have two very beat up cars to test my skills on, but felt very comfortable with a little practice.

I think a more aggressive pad/polish combo may be needed for your scratches, but it's always good to start light and see what sort of results (if any) you get. Then step it up - first with the pad, then with the product. You should probably work the product for a couple of minutes at 5-6 with a SMR. Most of the scratches you ARE going to see on a silver car (got one myself!) are not going to be light enough for the SMR to take care of, in my experience.

On a black car... It can make a huge difference. Try stepping up the pad, then the polish, then step back and see if these are really worth taking out... I haven't even touched my car with the PC (5 yrs, 77k miles) because I can get a great finish that you can't tell a difference on - under any light - from 4-5 feet unless you catch the 1 or 2 spots that have slight scratches or marring (minus that little wetsanding spot I gotta touch up!!).

Good luck with it. Your confidence will grow quickly. And remember, just about anything you could possibly do wrong with the PC you can take out with the PC. I have yet to even see a compounding haze... guess I'm not trying hard enough!

 

I think a word of caution may be in order. Although the PC is fairly idiot proof, overpolishing is something to be avoided. Confidence with the PC is important in getting results, but I think with the PC craze these days, it's worth remembering that there is such a thing as too much polishing [too often].

That said, it's great to see that people are becoming more meticulous about paint care. Send us some before/after pics, HondaGal.

 

Yeah, I was thinking that maybe I was a little overzealous in my suggestion that you can't mess up with the PC... as I was working on a non-metallic red CLK 320 convertible with a SFX1 (pretty agressive) pad and Meguiars #83... Man, it took those swirls down like you wouldn't believe. I followed with #80 on a sonus green (polishing) pad, which handled the haze verrry nicely. Man, this car pops now, with a final coat of Souvern (mmm, tasty!). Beautiful. I'll post some pics.

Btw, even with that pad and #83, it took 2-3 applications in some places and by the time I was 3/4 way through, I had a very good idea of how to work with #83. Sloowwww and smooooth... I'll post some pics tomorrow.