Some Things I'd Like to Share Part II
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The "first" one was already stated as being "polite". When this one was ignored, then came the 2nd one (italicized). It is this one that I (and probably most others) find to be "less than polite". If there is something else that is not being shown, then yes, we don't have all the info.
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From: In a glass case of emotion!
Originally posted by cthree
Sorry but what do you know about what was communicated between the moderator and the member? How are you to judge what is rude or disrespectful if you don't know what was said? Perhaps his request was just terse and unaffectionate? Maybe it was rough and nasty? Obviously Charles didn't like it so that's fair, his complaint is noted. Define for me rude in the same way I'm asked to define too big, in a way that every single person on the planet will agree on.
I saw the PMs that LudeDude sent to Charles and I would personally describe them as unscented.
Sorry but what do you know about what was communicated between the moderator and the member? How are you to judge what is rude or disrespectful if you don't know what was said? Perhaps his request was just terse and unaffectionate? Maybe it was rough and nasty? Obviously Charles didn't like it so that's fair, his complaint is noted. Define for me rude in the same way I'm asked to define too big, in a way that every single person on the planet will agree on.
I saw the PMs that LudeDude sent to Charles and I would personally describe them as unscented.
Well, I know more than you think....and even if I did not, your attitude in THIS post reinforces my point of the rude tone of the moderation as a whole. Thank you for proving my point.
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Originally posted by Strike
Are these exact quotes or your paraphrasing with your own interpretation thrown in?
Are these exact quotes or your paraphrasing with your own interpretation thrown in?
Originally posted by cthree
Charles what the issue represents is that you can't seem to understand that moderation is organic and that the moderators are given a set of general guidelines to follow then they are asked to use their best judgment in deciding how to interpret and enforce them. We evaluate the effectiveness of the moderator based on how well we feel they have interpreted those guidelines and more specifically the spirit of those guidelines and based on whether we feel they have made good judgments. Moderators are subjective decision makers and are given the freedom to make decisions within the scope of the guidelines we give them.
Moderators are evaluated on quality of their decisions and they aren't compared to one another. One moderator might thing something is fine, another might not. If there is doubt then they ask us to weigh in. Each moderator is different and comes from a different experience and background. They are chosen based on their character not their math.
Charles what the issue represents is that you can't seem to understand that moderation is organic and that the moderators are given a set of general guidelines to follow then they are asked to use their best judgment in deciding how to interpret and enforce them. We evaluate the effectiveness of the moderator based on how well we feel they have interpreted those guidelines and more specifically the spirit of those guidelines and based on whether we feel they have made good judgments. Moderators are subjective decision makers and are given the freedom to make decisions within the scope of the guidelines we give them.
Moderators are evaluated on quality of their decisions and they aren't compared to one another. One moderator might thing something is fine, another might not. If there is doubt then they ask us to weigh in. Each moderator is different and comes from a different experience and background. They are chosen based on their character not their math.
Please give me your evaluations of the PM from ludedude. Honestly too, as I really want to know. Is there absolutely nothing wrong with what he did? So if there is a guide-line, why did another moderator say there isn't? I believe that when it comes to guide-lines, they seem to be all based upon the moderators' ability to tell the right from the wrong, and that does not seem right. Again, with the police brutality case, if there are no strict guide-lines, police brutality would be the right thing to do if the officer believes it is.
It is perfectly normal that different moderators have different standards, but in this case, we're talking about a double-standard from one moderator only.
Originally posted by cthree
Charles, why not spare us the eloquence and state your grievance in 20 words or less. Just one sentence which states exactly what you are trying to say.
On the topic of rules, lets be a bit realistic. If I sat down and wrote out 5 pages of specific concrete rules would you read them? Would something not addressed by those rules automatically and forever more be acceptable practice?
Charles, why not spare us the eloquence and state your grievance in 20 words or less. Just one sentence which states exactly what you are trying to say.
On the topic of rules, lets be a bit realistic. If I sat down and wrote out 5 pages of specific concrete rules would you read them? Would something not addressed by those rules automatically and forever more be acceptable practice?
If you sat down and wrote the rules, I might not read them, but did you read all the laws in America? The rules need to be there, and if there is a strict guide-line of how things should be run, I will obey. If I missed a part of it and is charged guilty, I have no right to complain. This is not the case here. That is how the law works. Not everyone know all of them, but when they're charged with something they're unfamiliar of but is clearly stated in the book, they have no right to protest, especially when the laws have been revised time and again to be fair and complete, not just stone-cold rules written on a solid piece of granite. Starting with only one rule would be a good idea, and then you can expand from there. Of course, when you expand, you constult the people, not only the voices in your head. Does that sound unreasonable? It is hard work, and if you do not feel like doing it, that is perfectly fine with me. But then one day I feel something is unfair, I will stand out and speak. If you do make good points without making things up, then all the power to you. Healthy debates benefit everyone, as long as people do it right.
brantshali, westsidebilly, xviper, and others seem to understand the points I'm trying to make here, and that makes me wonder why it is hard for someone else to, unless he doesn't want to, of course.
As you can see, I will benefit from nothing by winning this debate. I'm not here to make trouble or stir up chaos either. I started this second thread with a sincere apology and I've always tried to keep civilized and calm. All I want out of this is not just a sorry. Heck, none of you needs to apologize. I just hope that I get the point across and you guys can consider what I said. I have no doubts that this will lead to a better, stronger community than it already is.
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From: Denver CO
JL9000,
Since you keep bringing it up to try to suggest that Cthree and I are not in agreement let me clarify my statement about there being guidelines. A long time ago we started getting complaints about sigs having too many graphics (especially from dial up users) and/or being very long from people who just wanted to read the threads. Since then it's been discussed amongst the mods that a reasonable sig is allowed but if one was too long the person should be asked to change it. On many occasions when a mod isn't sure what constitutes too long they ask the other mods for their opinion. This has created a general understanding (through discussion and consensus) amongst the mods about what is appropriate. Up until now Cthree had never defined a specific standard but we all had an idea because of the discussions that had gone on.
Since you keep bringing it up to try to suggest that Cthree and I are not in agreement let me clarify my statement about there being guidelines. A long time ago we started getting complaints about sigs having too many graphics (especially from dial up users) and/or being very long from people who just wanted to read the threads. Since then it's been discussed amongst the mods that a reasonable sig is allowed but if one was too long the person should be asked to change it. On many occasions when a mod isn't sure what constitutes too long they ask the other mods for their opinion. This has created a general understanding (through discussion and consensus) amongst the mods about what is appropriate. Up until now Cthree had never defined a specific standard but we all had an idea because of the discussions that had gone on.
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Originally posted by Mindcore
A mod sent a PM asking that you reduce your sig, then 10 hours or was it 2 hours? he sends another one, perhaps rude, perhaps brash asking once again that it be reduced.
I have a simple question.. did you read the PM soon after it was sent, but then waited to make a reply?
I send many PM's a day, I look and see if they are read, if they have, and appeared to be ignored, I step it up a notch.
If this was not the case, well then I'll bow out.
A mod sent a PM asking that you reduce your sig, then 10 hours or was it 2 hours? he sends another one, perhaps rude, perhaps brash asking once again that it be reduced.
I have a simple question.. did you read the PM soon after it was sent, but then waited to make a reply?
I send many PM's a day, I look and see if they are read, if they have, and appeared to be ignored, I step it up a notch.
If this was not the case, well then I'll bow out.
I read the PM afer he sent it to me, but only because I was here to read my PMs as I've previously said. I happened to put something on sale and I just didn't want any potential buyers be waiting. When I read ludedude's PM, I thought he wanted to buy my item, but it turned out he wasn't. I read the whole thing, and I was going to get to changing my sig before the day ends. I didn't feel the need to let him know my misfortune. The second PM I got when I logged back on to s2ki to change my sig. At that point, I was not comfortable with what I read from his second PM.
I understand why he thought I was trying to ignore him, but the only reason for that kind of assumption is from rage. We all know what we try not to be when we're angry, and I'm sure you all know this kind of things crosses your minds when you're mad. There is no reason to act them out though. I had absolutely no idea what he was angry about, but I wasn't in the best mood myself and I doubt a close family member of his passed away on the same day. I actually think I handled the situation quite well at first; before I made the first thread, I changed my sig to what he thought was appropriate.
Feel free to let me know whether I was right or wrong. I have no doubt about your ability to judge someone.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mindcore
I've have sent many PM's about sigs, if I see that someone read it, did not change it, and did not answer as to why they felt they shouldn't change it, my only conclusion is that they don't care to listen to me.
I can't speak for either of you, but in my mind, it is simply that neither of you knew whay each intention was.
I've have sent many PM's about sigs, if I see that someone read it, did not change it, and did not answer as to why they felt they shouldn't change it, my only conclusion is that they don't care to listen to me.
I can't speak for either of you, but in my mind, it is simply that neither of you knew whay each intention was.