Here's an analogy. Think of the forum as a Target department store. If someone is in the isles screaming foul language, the moderators need to step in. But if someone asks where the shoe department is, the moderator shouldn't get all huffy and tell them to read the map at the front of the store. If a few people congregate in the shoe department and talk about dish soap they shouldn't be rudely pushed out of the department. If 100 people a day come in and ask where the cell phone department is, maybe it needs a bigger sign or a re-organization of the store layout. What it doesn't need is a moderator who thinks the customers are idiots because they ask the same question 100 times a day.

To me it feels like a few of the moderators are taking things too seriously. There seems to be the attitude that the S2000 Talk section is a "cesspool" of "crap" and it needs to be cleaned up in a hurry. I don't think that's the case. For the most part the forum has always been a fun and helpful place. It still is. Plenty of forum guests are happy to give helpful advice and answers to newbies. No need to start enforcing the 55mph speed limit with an iron fist here. I think the S2000 Talk forum should have more leeway because it's a catch-all forum.

 

I think the "stay on topic" piece is brought up because people oftem read a thread based on something specific in the title of the thread. So, for example, if the thread is related to a cruise control issue and the discussion becomes an aftermarket steering wheel thread based simply on the progression of the conversation, I'm not sure this necessarily is best for a thread either. There is a difference between real-life conversation and forum post progression. For those that have met me, I ramble... (a lot), and a conversation with me can go 4514516732 different ways. I don't know if a thread necessarily should.

My $.02

 

Car enthusiasm... It's serious shit!

 

I think that the content of the OP should decide whether or not a wandering conversation should be locked. If someone posted a thread about his cruise control function as you mentioned above, it should be locked if other posters change the conversation to something ENTIRELY different. However, if a thread is started where the OP shares a story or gives advise with other members, it shouldn't necessarily be locked if the conversation begins to wander (see my post above).

The Target store analogy was perfect

 

Here's an analogy. Think of the forum as a Target department store. If someone is in the isles screaming foul language, the moderators need to step in. But if someone asks where the shoe department is, the moderator shouldn't get all huffy and tell them to read the map at the front of the store. If a few people congregate in the shoe department and talk about dish soap they shouldn't be rudely pushed out of the department. If 100 people a day come in and ask where the cell phone department is, maybe it needs a bigger sign or a re-organization of the store layout. What it doesn't need is a moderator who thinks the customers are idiots because they ask the same question 100 times a day.

To me it feels like a few of the moderators are taking things too seriously. There seems to be the attitude that the S2000 Talk section is a "cesspool" of "crap" and it needs to be cleaned up in a hurry. I don't think that's the case. For the most part the forum has always been a fun and helpful place. It still is. Plenty of forum guests are happy to give helpful advice and answers to newbies. No need to start enforcing the 55mph speed limit with an iron fist here. I think the S2000 Talk forum should have more leeway because it's a catch-all forum.
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To further this without users there are no ad revenues to support the website. It all starts with the users, that's why this site got big enough to sell. If the mods want to hinder the site they can be heavy handed.

I really like your Target analogy. To make it even better, imagine you're new to the country and walk into said target looking to by milk, but you're in lady's clothing. If the sales person (mod) got rude with you, barked at you and pointed to milk you wouldn't be too quickly to come back.

For most new users this is how the site looks to them. Car Talk is open forum with a wide qualification to post. Pretty safe area to ask questions/talk. They shouldn't be treated poorly for doing so. Now if someone posts a question regarding turbo chargers maybe that's grounds for a friendly "not the right section, here's where you want to post to get the best INFO and this is something search showed me you might find helpful reply'.

 

Agree.

So, here is my question... We agree... thread should be locked (right?).

Does it get locked right away?
Do we post a comment to get back on topic?
Do we remove the post(s) that steered the conversation off topic?

There are pros and cons to the actions we take here..and this is part of the opportunity that we face. I'm not a fan of just locking the thread.... to the OP, they may still have a question that didn't get answered. Now their thread gets locked and you know what happens? Two seconds later... We get an email complaint or a new post asking why we locked the thread.
If we remove the posts, then we will have the same follow-ups as we would from the OP. If we PM the people who went off tangent, the response will be the same as well and again, be viewed as over-moderating.

I like the Target analogy as well.. There are parts of the Fish Principle built into that example so I'm a fan (good read for sales people if you have never read it). I don't necessarily feel that we handle the forums quite to that extreme though.

 

^ This would be nice....but, how many times do other people jump on this person and "treat them poorly".

Examples of posts that I have seen..




and of course, "IBTL"


I don't think this falls just on the Moderating Team but also the forum people as well. It's a behavior not just in S2000Talk (or even just s2ki).

 

Personally, I don't have much of an issue with the moderating. If anything, this whole board has probably been under-moderated in the past with spam and for sale ads sticking around for days, etc. The one year rule gets on my nerves when a good topic gets bumped to either add more info or get clarification and then instantly locked because it breaks a "rule". Now a classified post from 5 years ago that someone bumps asking "is this still for sale" should be an instant lock, just use some judgement.

I think there is one topic in particular where the response by a moderator was inappropriate (which has been referred to in this thread) to a first time poster asking a serious question. Of course you are entitled to personal opinions, but just like a vendor it can reflect on your company/position also. Try hanging out in the wheel/tire section and answering the same "will it fit" questions everyday.

 

Amen. Honestly I don't frequent s2000 talk as much as I used to, but I'm of the opinion that it's better to err on the side of too much freedom vs. too little. Also, I think going off on a tangent to the current discussion rather than completely off-topic is obviously a fine line. If some people can't distinguish tangents from completely random lines, then perhaps they're not best suited to be a moderator. Also, topics may drift off on tangents a little then return back to the original discussion. Again, it's perfectly normal and acceptable. How you handle this "drift" is all upto the moderator (some places will post saying "hey guys it's getting a little OT"). Forums aren't just about one topic, there's certainly a social aspect to them vs. strictly utilitarian.

On another note.. the notion of addressing common/recurring questions is always a difficult one for any forum. It's the same on EVERY type of forum. I think it certainly takes a person with a certain amount of patience to moderate, as honest mistakes do happen. I know I've searched before, and couldn't find threads due to search not working well, or me simply not finding it. I post a thread, and someone says "just search," but I already did w/o any luck. As someone else pointed out with a good analogy, when you enter a store, you make an effort to find out where something is, and sometimes you legitimately don't know where to look so you ask.

I think when online forums started years ago the idea that people couldn't read the FAQ's/etc BEFORE posting was a foreign concept. Having good online "etiquette" is foreign to some people like other forms of etiquette, and it sometimes isn't really their fault (some people don't even know what a FAQ is, literally). So, moderating takes quite a bit of patience, especially in the "newb" forums. If you can't be that patient/calm grandparent type of figure most of the time, you probably should hand the reigns over. I also don't necessarily fault anyone for making mistakes, we all do... but sometimes after making mistakes you have to come to the realization that you're not cutout for XYZ. No shame in that either. I haven't directly had a problem with any moderators, but I can see how some members got annoyed based on some of the linked threads.

 

So it's better to have multiple threads on the same topic? If that's the case, when one searches, multiple threads will show up, instead of one which has all the information? Fail to see how this is better...