m1bjr,
so to solve the bumpsteer problem, will just a rack spacer do the job nicely or I need the toe arm as well and vise versa?

 

That looks good

 

Okay an update, and it's all positive - now using a non-stagger wheel setup.
(Same sizes front and rear by employing rear rims on the front)

Had the rears machined, the centres are smaller than the fronts.
Presumably this is for two reasons.
One, to prevent some numpty fitting them arse about face.
Secondly to stop you fitting the space saver (or trying) on the wrong end.

The centres of the rear oem 17x8.5 alloys have to be a clearance fit of 70mm ID to fit the front hubs.
Machining them to 70.3mm is ideal to clear the front hubs.
No other mods are required.

I have picked up the front of the car by about 14mm whilst I was under there, by adjusting the KW3 platforms.
The ride height is now level (no forward rake) and wheel centres to arches are 31 & 1/8" all around.
With the front lip, <3" is not sufficient to avoid the rubber speed humps in karens work or gym

Okay I lost a little camber doing this but its minimal.
Camber gain from height on the front is not so pronounced as on the rear.

The car in its lowered state still did not rub the oem wings and plastic liners at all.
I have caned it with lots of lock, up ramps and bumpy high speed twisties, driveway entrys etc.
No issues at all with rubbing which is nice - the outer gap looks really tight but no probs.
I have about 1.5deg or less front camber btw, so not a great deal.
There is more scope for wider rubber there with a degree more camber I reckon.

So hows the drive?
Bloody excellent in fast corners!
Especially seeing it needs realignment, more front camber and re weighting, its far faster.

The small trade off initially seemed to be a harder front ride, but this was not all it seemed....
I have new RE050MZ (oem rear rubber) on the front too so the sidewalls are harder on the 245/17/40 profile.
Once warmed up and scrubbed in the ride improved a lot and will continue to do so as they adapt to the camber.
It was quite crashy initally, but I need to adapt the guessed 32psi in them also.
And its cold out - oem rubber is always crashy when cold

Is it now an oversteery nutter killer weapon?
Erm, no.
So all the n'er sayers can step away from the keyboards.
In essence its 'more of the same'.
More mechanical front grip and a very stable and tractable rear.

Supporting mods included front and rear aero (wing) and more rear camber than the front (1.5 & 2.5 ish respectively).
And a 30mm solid front ARB from Whiteline with supllied polybushings.
This combined with the now zero rake keeps the rear firmly in check.

Cornering on fast corners, anything like a big roundabout and up, is quite incredible.

There is zero change to tramlining, still a little but it was always there.

Self centring is now minimal at low speed, even with max castor.
At higher speeds the car will right itself, hands off no problem.
So, you now have to 'drive' the rear on tight bends if you get it loose (getting loose is hard to do though)

There is still a small degree of understeer due to big arb, rar aero, camber choice and cold front tyres no doubt.

Straightline braking and trail braking are massively improved.
That much extra rubber means you can hammer the pedal down and stop faster than most things.
Even in a fast bend if you manage the steering correctly (don't ask how I found that out )

Turn in is still sharp - thiose hard sidewalls actaully dont hinder anything here.

On 'R' rubber with more camber, it will make a massive difference to a trackday animal, which is what this is evolving into.
But the aim is to do it on a small budget, and so far its all working.

Give it a go, the car drives well, stops and corners better and the cost is very minimal.
I note a small increase in caliper clearance too but alas didnt measure it.

Steve

 

UPDATE:

Have now lost the rake and levelled the car by raising the front about 14mm.
This was due to now running a non stagger setup (245 all around), bigger front bar (Whiteline 30mm solid) and rear aero.

Camber and toe remains unchaged at present as on road rubber, cold weather and not many track days.

The height is now 13.1" wheel centres to edge of wheel arch on every corner.
The aim was to dial out the deliberate oversteer put IN by the forward rake idea.
Front grip is massively increased and this adjustment has re-balanced the car nicely on track.

Turn in is better, front grip is immense even with less than 1deg neg on front (much more to come from more neg).
This would make a fun AutoSolo car with more front camber.
Nothing could seem to keep up through very slow hairpins and twists, even lightweights.

More recent pics below with OEM rear rims on front with oem Potenza 245 rubber all around fro road use.
R888 for next summer season, and more front camber.

Watch this space!

 

Nice setup, I ran KW's on my Lupo for over a year in all weathers and they still cleaned up like new and were easy to adjust.

 

You've got to love that front end! (barring the grill)

Interesting to see you removed the rake. I will be reducing mine shortly as I now have clearence issue. I'm going to get an a couple of 8"et48 wheels for the front as I''m not that keen on the feel of understeer the arb's bring.

Thanks for posting

 

You're not keen on the mesh then?
Obviously I am, but it keeps the rocks out of the rad too.
We do a fair amount of fast road trips and the apron is chipped to hell now.
And the rad had a lot of dinks, so if nowt else, it stops that fatal stone (the main reason for fitting actually).

You could also try a bit more front camber and perhaps a bit less rear toe.
That will help the understeer issue.

 

Thanks for the pointers! I've been reading about geo setting alot recently, I find it interesting.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the mesh. On the other hand though if it helps to protect your rad

What geo settings you got now (all), toe/camber/castor?

Here are mine:

 

Not sure, as raising the front ride height has reduced front camber and added a little toe in.

I have to get this on the rig very soon, but what I will say is even with a hashed up geo, its a bloody good drive
Rear ride height means my minimum rear camber is in the order of minus two degrees or more.
I estimate the front to be about a degree.

Im using re050mz road rubber on the front which are 245/40/17 profiles and very stiff walls.
After track they have showed no signs of scrubbing the outer edges.
I had no pyro but by feel the temps were the same across the tyre.
So, its probably about right for these tyres, with R compound in summer,it would need al least another degree I would think.

Rears remain at about -2.25 deg. with a similar toe to stock.
The rear toe is coming down too, its just taking the inner edge off, you can smell it.
It will also sharpen the steering a bit too.

This car is very different to oem so the numbers won't mean much unless you're of a similar setup.
Camber seems more related to tyre choice than anything.
These fronts are so stiff you need less camber with the square road tyres.
An R888 however is more rounded shoulder and has more grip.
So, the cornering force and so the lean will be greater.
Now of course you get dynamic camber from compressing the suspension so you may still not need a great deal more static

Our yank cousins seem to settle on about 2.2 neg all corners with non-stagger and R compounds.
Zero front toe and nearly zero rear toe in.
Lively

 

Great write up

I'm just wondering what you think about using the KW V3s on a daily basis.
I'm currently using Bilsteins, but I'm not happy with the lack of adjustment available.