To bush or not to bush?
Tim, I dumped the Polybush compliance bushes, they were next to useless almost solid no compliance at all , I fitted Powerflex ones which on the face of it seem to do what is required.
Win, I do not get any squeaking over speed bumps etc , I think you could well be correct in your diagnosis ( you couldn't afford me )
Win, I do not get any squeaking over speed bumps etc , I think you could well be correct in your diagnosis ( you couldn't afford me )
I've got the Powerflex spherical ones too and am happy with them.
Originally Posted by AndyL' timestamp='1384196821' post='22871969
Also, since the demise(?) of DMS - who is the Powerflex supplier now?
If you haven't started work on the compliance bushes yet have a look at the Powerflex ones - they're spherical polyurethane bearings in a metal cage rather than solid bushes as per Polybush so give a full range of motion but a more accurate location than the Mugen ones.
Thanks for the link. You can buy direct from Powerflex - I was just hoping for a discount :-). I have the Mugen compliance bushes already.
Originally Posted by CHIPPO' timestamp='1384373243' post='22875778
Andy
The bushes were all laser cut from 1.2 mm stainless , I used one that had a pattern on it , Linen, as I reasoned that the pattern would hold grease. I think there were about 4 sizes in total. I might be able to find the e mail with the sizes.
The I.D. was a loose fit on the crush tube, again my weird logic was this:-
1) The crush tube needs to be held firmly in the housing to prevent rotational movement once the desired geo has been achieved, no lubrication and the bolt wanged up tight ( technical term ) The bolt its self was smothered in marine waterproof grease to prevent corrosion and future problems , copper slip is useless for this , its not water proof/resistant and you are only looking for corrosion resistance not lubrication.
2) The bush needs to sit in the housing on the arm ( O.D. of bush) without lubrication , this interface does not rotate and movement is effectively stopped, the desired condition. Polybush ones went in like a dick up a tube station
3) rotation is achieved between the bush and the crush tube , and of course the ends of the bush against the housing on the subframe/body . So its at these interface's that you need to add lubricant to allow the bush to rotate along with the washers. I used water resistant silicone grease , the one i had was a free sample of one used in the food industry where "washout" is a very bad thing , silicone in your burgers at Maccy D is frowned on. The silicone should not affect the polyurethane of the bushes.
4) Somewhere in my thread is a video of an arm moving under its own steam nice and free
5) So my aim was to remove as much as possible any friction from the system and allow the shocks and springs to do the work, fixed rubber bushes as the OEM seem to me to add to the spring rate in a progressive way.
6)What I have achieved I am not sure , but I feel that its certainly more responsive than OEM and the wife thinks the car is smoother. Currently have it all set quite soft 8kg springs and 10 clicks from full soft on Meisters.
7) I did consider drilling and adding a grease nipple to each housing on the arms and therby aid future servicing by being able to squirt grease directly between the bush and crush tube, some where i found that a few people do this on classic cars in the states lIke Mustangs , they drill a hole through the bush and an external groove under the nipple and then cut grease grove on the inner surface of the bush to distribute the grease. I stopped short of this as i failed to get any answers to the question of where suspension arms failed under high stress i.e. in crashes, although i think if the housing were drilled opposite the arm it would be the area of lowest stress .
Thanks Dave or is it Ray , t bloke up t north for your comments !!!
Oh Andy your mind works like mine , yes the axial loads need to be dealt with , and hence the washers and lubrication. And to that end in various places I squessed in additional washers to remove any axial movement , not all the subframe/body housings are perfect sizes , i suppose distorted slightly through use. As I recall some of the bushes are split double ended affairs and others single ended. Some the crush tubes fell in , other the tubes need a tap or 2 with a fine watch makers persuasion tool.
The bushes were all laser cut from 1.2 mm stainless , I used one that had a pattern on it , Linen, as I reasoned that the pattern would hold grease. I think there were about 4 sizes in total. I might be able to find the e mail with the sizes.
The I.D. was a loose fit on the crush tube, again my weird logic was this:-
1) The crush tube needs to be held firmly in the housing to prevent rotational movement once the desired geo has been achieved, no lubrication and the bolt wanged up tight ( technical term ) The bolt its self was smothered in marine waterproof grease to prevent corrosion and future problems , copper slip is useless for this , its not water proof/resistant and you are only looking for corrosion resistance not lubrication.
2) The bush needs to sit in the housing on the arm ( O.D. of bush) without lubrication , this interface does not rotate and movement is effectively stopped, the desired condition. Polybush ones went in like a dick up a tube station
3) rotation is achieved between the bush and the crush tube , and of course the ends of the bush against the housing on the subframe/body . So its at these interface's that you need to add lubricant to allow the bush to rotate along with the washers. I used water resistant silicone grease , the one i had was a free sample of one used in the food industry where "washout" is a very bad thing , silicone in your burgers at Maccy D is frowned on. The silicone should not affect the polyurethane of the bushes.
4) Somewhere in my thread is a video of an arm moving under its own steam nice and free
5) So my aim was to remove as much as possible any friction from the system and allow the shocks and springs to do the work, fixed rubber bushes as the OEM seem to me to add to the spring rate in a progressive way.
6)What I have achieved I am not sure , but I feel that its certainly more responsive than OEM and the wife thinks the car is smoother. Currently have it all set quite soft 8kg springs and 10 clicks from full soft on Meisters.
7) I did consider drilling and adding a grease nipple to each housing on the arms and therby aid future servicing by being able to squirt grease directly between the bush and crush tube, some where i found that a few people do this on classic cars in the states lIke Mustangs , they drill a hole through the bush and an external groove under the nipple and then cut grease grove on the inner surface of the bush to distribute the grease. I stopped short of this as i failed to get any answers to the question of where suspension arms failed under high stress i.e. in crashes, although i think if the housing were drilled opposite the arm it would be the area of lowest stress .
Thanks Dave or is it Ray , t bloke up t north for your comments !!!
Oh Andy your mind works like mine , yes the axial loads need to be dealt with , and hence the washers and lubrication. And to that end in various places I squessed in additional washers to remove any axial movement , not all the subframe/body housings are perfect sizes , i suppose distorted slightly through use. As I recall some of the bushes are split double ended affairs and others single ended. Some the crush tubes fell in , other the tubes need a tap or 2 with a fine watch makers persuasion tool.
Do you get any squeaking from the bushes when going over speedbumps etc? I reckon this comes from the end of bush to housing surface and is starting to piss me off more and more
Made a start on getting the old bushes out this afternoon. One big vice, lump hammer, grinder, drill, hole cutter and a lot of elbow grease and .... two bushes out. It's going to be a long winter in the garage at this rate .....
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