Driven chn 4
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,332
Likes: 2
From: On a fencepost
Originally posted by ianl
At the risk of tossing a proverbial cat in amongst the proverbial pigeons...........
............does it really matter?
At the risk of tossing a proverbial cat in amongst the proverbial pigeons...........
............does it really matter?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ianl
[B]
Lets face it - we each like the S2000 for all sorts of reasons - looks / engineering integrity (sorry Brian
) / performance / rarity.......ah, now, RARITY!
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 1
From: Henfield, West Sussex
I don't think that Johnny Mowlem is such as bad driver, he certainly seems to has a reasonable background.
http://www.grand-am.com/news/nr_12_18_01_1.html
http://www.racecar.co.uk/lemans2001/news/n080501.htm
http://www.superracingweekends.com/FIAGTmg...wlem_Johnny.htm
IMHO his style is different to Jason's, you don't finish endurance races by throwing the car through every corner. His driving appeared to be smooth and calm, whereas Jason was wringing every little bit of speed out of the CTR.
The result is what I expected, as seeing the S2000 disappear into the distance would not make for interesting television. To me the race was rigged, but I can understand why. I even doubt if it was all filmed in one lap, I would be interested to see the full footage. I imagine it is good marketing for Honda, as it will certainly improve the image of the Civic (all models). Yes, Johnny drives a Porsche, he races them .... but do you seriously expect Porsche to lend Drivel a car, so that it can be beaten by a Honda?
I enjoyed the race, IMO it demonstrates that both cars were fun to drive and very capable. To me it showed that the S2000 was easier to drive fast. What I find disappointing is that the masses will probably take the programme on face value. Still, if it sells Hondas, that's a good result. I'm not sure what it does to the image of the S2000, but I'm proud of mine and will still love driving it
http://www.grand-am.com/news/nr_12_18_01_1.html
http://www.racecar.co.uk/lemans2001/news/n080501.htm
http://www.superracingweekends.com/FIAGTmg...wlem_Johnny.htm
IMHO his style is different to Jason's, you don't finish endurance races by throwing the car through every corner. His driving appeared to be smooth and calm, whereas Jason was wringing every little bit of speed out of the CTR.
The result is what I expected, as seeing the S2000 disappear into the distance would not make for interesting television. To me the race was rigged, but I can understand why. I even doubt if it was all filmed in one lap, I would be interested to see the full footage. I imagine it is good marketing for Honda, as it will certainly improve the image of the Civic (all models). Yes, Johnny drives a Porsche, he races them .... but do you seriously expect Porsche to lend Drivel a car, so that it can be beaten by a Honda?
I enjoyed the race, IMO it demonstrates that both cars were fun to drive and very capable. To me it showed that the S2000 was easier to drive fast. What I find disappointing is that the masses will probably take the programme on face value. Still, if it sells Hondas, that's a good result. I'm not sure what it does to the image of the S2000, but I'm proud of mine and will still love driving it
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,446
Likes: 1
From: West Mids.
Oh dear.... dissent in the ranks! 
People, what we saw was a powerful FWD hot hatch beating a more powerful RWD sports car, in appallingly wet conditions! The hot hatch was also being driven by the reigning Touring Car Champion and he intended to win. Whether it was staged or not I don't know. Why on earth should we be surprised at the result. It would have been the same result with whatever other sports car they'd chosen to pitch against the CTR in those conditions. It's no different to the yoyo who comes pissing past you on the road in his FWD drive hatch in the wet, he's driving a far more forgiving and stable car than you are, and if you've any sense, you'll let him get on with it.
The S2000 is the far faster car as was shown at the start when it sprang into a big lead off the mark. The driver had a couple of squirmy corners early on in the first two corners and didn't push it too much after that. Who can blame him? It was in the corners that the Civic won it... and only just at that. The Civic was being driven to the balls out limit in the conditions by Jason, the S2000 wasn't.
We've bought a fantastic open sports car optimized, particularly with the SO2s, for dry weather performance. In the dry the S2000 would have won by a mile because he wouldn't have kept losing the ground in the corners, as he did. If anyone is under any illusions that there are not already a load of FWD hot hatches out there, the CTR notwithstanding, that you will not shake off round the twisty bits, IN THE DRY with the right driver, I reckon you better think again. In the wet, they have a significant advantage!... NUF said.
The S2000 is 10 grand more for a reason.. it's significantly faster, (close to 30 mph at the top end) and is a drivers car in a way that the CTR will never be, brilliant as it is!
Can we please all stop fuking moaning now! Buy a CTR if you want one, it's a great car, but don't judge it better or anywhere near the equal of the S2000 on that showing.
Hi everybody!!
People, what we saw was a powerful FWD hot hatch beating a more powerful RWD sports car, in appallingly wet conditions! The hot hatch was also being driven by the reigning Touring Car Champion and he intended to win. Whether it was staged or not I don't know. Why on earth should we be surprised at the result. It would have been the same result with whatever other sports car they'd chosen to pitch against the CTR in those conditions. It's no different to the yoyo who comes pissing past you on the road in his FWD drive hatch in the wet, he's driving a far more forgiving and stable car than you are, and if you've any sense, you'll let him get on with it.
The S2000 is the far faster car as was shown at the start when it sprang into a big lead off the mark. The driver had a couple of squirmy corners early on in the first two corners and didn't push it too much after that. Who can blame him? It was in the corners that the Civic won it... and only just at that. The Civic was being driven to the balls out limit in the conditions by Jason, the S2000 wasn't.
We've bought a fantastic open sports car optimized, particularly with the SO2s, for dry weather performance. In the dry the S2000 would have won by a mile because he wouldn't have kept losing the ground in the corners, as he did. If anyone is under any illusions that there are not already a load of FWD hot hatches out there, the CTR notwithstanding, that you will not shake off round the twisty bits, IN THE DRY with the right driver, I reckon you better think again. In the wet, they have a significant advantage!... NUF said.
The S2000 is 10 grand more for a reason.. it's significantly faster, (close to 30 mph at the top end) and is a drivers car in a way that the CTR will never be, brilliant as it is!
Can we please all stop fuking moaning now!
Buy a CTR if you want one, it's a great car, but don't judge it better or anywhere near the equal of the S2000 on that showing.Hi everybody!!
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 0
From: london
Originally posted by Cedric Tomkinson
Whether it was staged or not I don't know. Why on earth should we be surprised at the result.
Whether it was staged or not I don't know. Why on earth should we be surprised at the result.
Totally agree with the road going hot hatch thing CT - in the end what happens on a wet road to us every day happened to the s2k on that track - some FWD nutter throwing his car about!!
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,373
Likes: 1
From: Lagru
Originally posted by Tifosi Red
Great post! This is a sentiment I was going to start a thread on - why are S2000s so rare.... who cares!
Great post! This is a sentiment I was going to start a thread on - why are S2000s so rare.... who cares!
Originally posted by Tifosi Red
As it happens I missed Drivel
As it happens I missed Drivel
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
From: Inside your head
Ive been away for a bit, snowboarding in Austria
I missed the show, but heard all about it the morning after. I took a little ribbing, but in a straight line I know which one would win.....
The outcome doesn't bother me in the slightest. If anything it should help boost sales for the CTR quite significantly. Its quite a good marketing technique to make people think they are buying something that it faster than a sports car costing 10k more. I must admit, ive been tempted to downgrade over the past few months. Money issues being the main factor.
Regarding racing, If people want a race i just let them go these days.
Only last night I was driving home from Manchester and on the A5 near Cannock and some idiot in a BMW decided to race me. I think i overtook him and he pulled out and was right up my rear. I let him go after a few miles, five minutes later I saw him on the grass verge with another car he had run into the back of. What an idiot...
I missed the show, but heard all about it the morning after. I took a little ribbing, but in a straight line I know which one would win.....
The outcome doesn't bother me in the slightest. If anything it should help boost sales for the CTR quite significantly. Its quite a good marketing technique to make people think they are buying something that it faster than a sports car costing 10k more. I must admit, ive been tempted to downgrade over the past few months. Money issues being the main factor.
Regarding racing, If people want a race i just let them go these days.
Only last night I was driving home from Manchester and on the A5 near Cannock and some idiot in a BMW decided to race me. I think i overtook him and he pulled out and was right up my rear. I let him go after a few miles, five minutes later I saw him on the grass verge with another car he had run into the back of. What an idiot...
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: West Midlands
Think about it from Honda's point of view.
They sell bugger all S2000's in the UK and it's a very niche market given the relative impracticalities of the car and the price - so given the choice of using the S2000 to demonstrate just how good their 'mass' market sports car is makes commercial sense.
Add to this the fact that Honda openly admit the S2000 is a showpiece to celebrate 50 years of production- there is a distinct possibility that Honda make very little money (if any) on the S2000 - don't forget much of it is hand-assembled in Japan, vs. the CTR which is made on a robot production line in Swindon.
Thus Honda are using the 'halo' effect of this "fantastic" true sports car (to quote Drivel) to improve/broaden the sporting 'value' of it's brand to the mass market, plus sell more of their higher margin, lower cost hatch - all nicely timed to coincide with Clarkson in the Sunday Times dubbing the S2000 the best modern convertible.
Anyway who care what others think about the S2000 - we know best.
Alun
--------------
Silverston/Black - due in c 3 weeks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They sell bugger all S2000's in the UK and it's a very niche market given the relative impracticalities of the car and the price - so given the choice of using the S2000 to demonstrate just how good their 'mass' market sports car is makes commercial sense.
Add to this the fact that Honda openly admit the S2000 is a showpiece to celebrate 50 years of production- there is a distinct possibility that Honda make very little money (if any) on the S2000 - don't forget much of it is hand-assembled in Japan, vs. the CTR which is made on a robot production line in Swindon.
Thus Honda are using the 'halo' effect of this "fantastic" true sports car (to quote Drivel) to improve/broaden the sporting 'value' of it's brand to the mass market, plus sell more of their higher margin, lower cost hatch - all nicely timed to coincide with Clarkson in the Sunday Times dubbing the S2000 the best modern convertible.
Anyway who care what others think about the S2000 - we know best.
Alun
--------------
Silverston/Black - due in c 3 weeks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!