Floppy

After having my new geo setup I have the passive rear steering feeling very noticeable when it wasn't with my previous S with similar geo settings. So my question is how do you get the car set up to eliminate as much of the passive rear steering as possible?

My settings are as follows:

F: 18x8 +35 and 225/35/18
R: 18x9 +38 and 255/35/18

I wanted to keep the rolling radius as close to OEM 17's as possible and that was the best option when using an online wheel calculator. It's also doubtful it's to do with the wheels themselves and more likely to be something subtle within my geo settings.

My geo is below (using a point as I don't have a degree symbol on my iPad!)

Front:

-1.5 camber
6.05 castor
-0.01 toe

Rear:

-2.34 camber
0.05 toe

I also have a spoon front cross brace and Beaks rear tie bar, combining those and the wheels its the same setup as my old car that had virtually no passive rear steering at all which is why I'm thinking its my geo instead.


TIA

markforrester99

Changing the rear toe arms from bushed to solidly mounted makes alot of difference. I imagine to a lesser extent fitting poly bushes in the rear toe arms would also lower the amount of movement in the bush compared to the OEM bush.

Ultra_Nexus

Your wheels are the wrong size. Not in the diameter, but width/offset and that is going to affect your rear geometry quite a bit.

You will never get rid of passive RWS due to the design/mounting point of the rear toe arm. Changing to a poly bush will not help you at all.

My advice to you is to get so more appropriately sized wheels and, if you have lowered the car, get some toe arms that can be adjusted for length and can be set so that they are horizontal with the car on the deck. Shortening the toe arm and using the adjuster cam to max value with also help.

However, the RWS is one of the best bits about the car. If you are clever, you can truly 'steer with the throttle' minus the wheel slip usually associate with the phrase

lovegroova

Are we talking about RWS or bump steer here, Flops?

They are different things.

For bump steer, polybushes or toe arms are a good solution. I recently went from poly back to OEM and the difference was very noticeable. I've now gone to hardrace toe arms which largely eliminates it.

(PS, that's a pretty low rear toe setting, which'll make the rear pretty slidey IMO).

chrispayze

I largely agree with what's been said above. Hardrace toe arms cure most of two 'problems'. They are solid jointed, so any rear wheel 'twist' (change in toe) due to hitting bumps is eliminated, which made a big difference to me on uneven surfaces. The downside is a little more transmission of the shock through the car, but not so much as it's a problem. However, the arms also sit at a different angle than the oem arms (lower at the wheel end), which means that the way the toe changes through the suspension travel is changed. This 'dynamic toe change' is much less than OEM, so reduces rear wheel steer due to any pitching/rolling of the car (ie when the suspension is loaded/unloaded). I do find you can still fine tune the line of the car with the throttle, but that's also due to slip angle of the tyres, not just rws. Edit: The place I got my geo done demonstrated the reduced dynamic toe change by moving the suspension without the coilover fitted. I can't remember the figures, but it makes a good difference. I seem to remember the difference was reduced to very low single figure minutes, close to zero in most of the 'normal' portion of the travel. The reduced dynamic toe means I've been able to reduce the static toe value quite a lot, whilst still keeping the rear very stable under braking etc. Added benefit is that my tyres last longer, so you recoup the money you spend on them within a few tyre changes!

chrispayze

PS, I've got a pair of Lovegroova's poly bushed toe arms if you want to try/buy them. They're just sitting in my parts bin. I fitted them for a short while to see if I liked the change. I REALLY liked the change so went the whole hog and got the solid jointed ones.

BenRNBP

I still get a nice bit of RWS with powerflex-bushed toe arms, so I'm not sure it does anything to ameliorate the effect.

SCZ4

I used to have this on my S2000, I never had any confidence when pushing on coming from other RWD cars. I had the alignment done, but that didn't cure it. For me, changing to Eibach springs more or less resolved it, just some mild bump steer now. I guess the firmer spring rate made a big improvement, the car was far too soft at the rear before.

Dembo

RWS amplifies the normal weight transfer effect, or steering with the throttle if you like, and that's something that applies to any car - not some magic Honda invention. For me it was over-sensitive, and fitting rear toe arms made a world of difference to the rear end stability (i.e. bump steer) as well as controllability. All the Honda designed in wobbliness was gone, and it felt like a proper car. But as everybody seems to have slightly different ideas about this, it may not work the same for you.

The low rear toe is going to make it slidey - is it simply that? And what about tyres? If you've gone for softer sidewalled tyres you'll be getting higher slip angles and more change on adjusting the throttle.

Finally, am I right in thinking your previous car was a 04+ and your new one is a <04?

Floppy

Thanks for the input guys.

I should have said some of my other mods to clarify...

BC Racing coilovers, 10/10 spring rating, lowered 30mm and damping adjusted on the front to 15/32 and rear 17/32 (from soft)
I can't remember the rake but I have had it set up so it does have some rake still, I can check that tonight.

T1R front rack spacers
Hardrace rear toe arms
Powerflex Polybushes on all arms
Mugen compliance bushes.
MY00 front and rear ARB's
Falken FK452's with at least 7mm of tread on all corners.

I am fully aware that the 18" wheels are larger than what most people have but to simply say they are wrong is a bit misconstrued as I know they are wider with a lower offset and this will affect. However, when comparing like for like, which is what I am doing against my MY00 that was recently written off, with the above mods as well as its geo setup against that of my current MY02 with the same (above) mods I am saying the handling feels very different and I am trying to figure out why.

I like the neutral toe as it means I can feel and control the back end more when it does slide rather than it just snapping out violently, which these car's tend to do with increased levels of toe in on the rear (which is what I had as a setup on my first MY04).

I am used to the PRWS but want to reduce it a little more if you guys are saying it can't be eliminated, that is all. I may change my mind after taking it around Abingdon next month as I have been out of the car a long time so it could just be that?

EDIT: I think it's what Chrispayze is talking about with dynamic toe changes by the feel of what the car is doing...