Wallace's S2000 Track/Race car build
08-30-2021, 12:55 PM
#41
Registered User
Interesting that you're getting understeer from your practically stop set up... I suspect your alignment might have a lot to play into things.
For the overheating, new fluids go a long way, and for the painted wheel issue, powder coating cracks over time especially when subjected to track use, just be careful around the lug area if you go that route. New wheels might be refreshing though.
My lug nuts regularly loosen through the day and I have to re-tighten them and check them. I used to torque them at 85lb-ft but I couldn't make it past a few hot laps before I would need to pit in. Then 90lb-ft and I would need to check it every session. Now I torque it to 95lb-ft and check frequently. The hub, the lugs, and the wheels ade made out of different materials so they heat up and expand at different rates causing the lugs to loosen.
The car looks good so far. Glad to see another S being tracked.
For the overheating, new fluids go a long way, and for the painted wheel issue, powder coating cracks over time especially when subjected to track use, just be careful around the lug area if you go that route. New wheels might be refreshing though.
My lug nuts regularly loosen through the day and I have to re-tighten them and check them. I used to torque them at 85lb-ft but I couldn't make it past a few hot laps before I would need to pit in. Then 90lb-ft and I would need to check it every session. Now I torque it to 95lb-ft and check frequently. The hub, the lugs, and the wheels ade made out of different materials so they heat up and expand at different rates causing the lugs to loosen.
The car looks good so far. Glad to see another S being tracked.
08-30-2021, 01:51 PM
#42
I had the exact same issue with my fans not coming on but powering up when bridged. New thermoswitch sorted it and no bleeding required which was a bonus! (just took out the old one and popped in the new, minimal coolant loss). I did keep the caps of the rad and expansion tank when I started it up again...just incase, but was totally fine. If you do a search there is a thread with a link to a thermoswitch (I got the same) and a how-to on bleeding and various other cooling related things.
For info I got mine off the bay..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radiator-...-127635-2958-0
08-30-2021, 01:57 PM
#43
Nice one, cheers! I'll definitely look into them and see how far they're booked up!
08-31-2021, 12:19 AM
#44
Normally things like fan switches ‘fail to safe’ so yes they will run when not required to prevent overheating, unfortunately on some cars they run constantly and flatten the battery too.
08-31-2021, 03:58 AM
#45
Registered User
Thread Starter
I had the exact same issue with my fans not coming on but powering up when bridged. New thermoswitch sorted it and no bleeding required which was a bonus! (just took out the old one and popped in the new, minimal coolant loss). I did keep the caps of the rad and expansion tank when I started it up again...just incase, but was totally fine. If you do a search there is a thread with a link to a thermoswitch (I got the same) and a how-to on bleeding and various other cooling related things.
I ordered a new fan switch as I think mine is on when it shouldn't be (although haven't got round to fitting it yet). I take it they can break and result in the fan being on when it shouldn't be, or off when it should be on?
For info I got mine off the bay..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radiator-...-127635-2958-0
For info I got mine off the bay..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radiator-...-127635-2958-0
I actually got the switch from the same seller on ebay but just a different brand.Interesting that you're getting understeer from your practically stop set up... I suspect your alignment might have a lot to play into things.
For the overheating, new fluids go a long way, and for the painted wheel issue, powder coating cracks over time especially when subjected to track use, just be careful around the lug area if you go that route. New wheels might be refreshing though.
My lug nuts regularly loosen through the day and I have to re-tighten them and check them. I used to torque them at 85lb-ft but I couldn't make it past a few hot laps before I would need to pit in. Then 90lb-ft and I would need to check it every session. Now I torque it to 95lb-ft and check frequently. The hub, the lugs, and the wheels ade made out of different materials so they heat up and expand at different rates causing the lugs to loosen.
The car looks good so far. Glad to see another S being tracked.
For the overheating, new fluids go a long way, and for the painted wheel issue, powder coating cracks over time especially when subjected to track use, just be careful around the lug area if you go that route. New wheels might be refreshing though.
My lug nuts regularly loosen through the day and I have to re-tighten them and check them. I used to torque them at 85lb-ft but I couldn't make it past a few hot laps before I would need to pit in. Then 90lb-ft and I would need to check it every session. Now I torque it to 95lb-ft and check frequently. The hub, the lugs, and the wheels ade made out of different materials so they heat up and expand at different rates causing the lugs to loosen.
The car looks good so far. Glad to see another S being tracked.
I think the alignment ( or lack of) is a big factor in the handling, looks like I've got positive front camber when cornering!
09-01-2021, 10:23 AM
#46
Registered User
Thread Starter
Just a week until I get KFC back on track but the prep for it is almost done.
As mentioned I decided to first get it dyno'd before doing an modifications just to get a base line for that too, it made just under 220bhp which seems pretty normal for one of these, although maybe a valve adjustment will help free up some more, regardless it was a smooth run with no fuelling issues:
The main thing to fix before the next track outing was obviously the overheating, I definitely think this was the culprit:
Almost a third of the radiator looked like that. The cooling fans not working also wouldn't have helped. So a nice shiny Koyorad (36mm thick) has been fitted:
I had my first fight with rust on the S2000 getting it in, with the bottom radiator hose clamp being rusted so much it wouldn't spring open and a few of the fan screws snapping. Happily the radiator fits perfectly as do the oem fans on it. I also decided to ditch the AC to get more air to the radiator and lose a little weight, I was full expecting to get a face full of gas whilst pulling it out but the system was completely dry so the only thing the AC button was doing was giving a nice placebo effect!
The engine bay is a little emptier with it removed:
Some ballast from the boot was also taken out:
I've also decided to give the "Airbox mod" a try to see if it gives a little more induction noise:
With it all back together I filled it with Honda type 2 coolant and bled/burped as per the DIYguys guide, I was happy to hear the fans kick in too so the new fan switch has worked.
That just leaves the brakes, I have a set of Stoptech Sport pads to go on:
I use these on the MX5 and they work pretty well, they're not particularly aggressive but cope with the heat on track and last well, plus they're really cheap! I think they should be decent enough for now since I don't have that much tyre grip and it will let me compare them to some proper race style pads later on.
I'll hopefully get those fitted tomorrow and bedded in ready for next week, then see if I can get a few more laps in round Knockhill without issue!
As mentioned I decided to first get it dyno'd before doing an modifications just to get a base line for that too, it made just under 220bhp which seems pretty normal for one of these, although maybe a valve adjustment will help free up some more, regardless it was a smooth run with no fuelling issues:
The main thing to fix before the next track outing was obviously the overheating, I definitely think this was the culprit:
Almost a third of the radiator looked like that. The cooling fans not working also wouldn't have helped. So a nice shiny Koyorad (36mm thick) has been fitted:
I had my first fight with rust on the S2000 getting it in, with the bottom radiator hose clamp being rusted so much it wouldn't spring open and a few of the fan screws snapping. Happily the radiator fits perfectly as do the oem fans on it. I also decided to ditch the AC to get more air to the radiator and lose a little weight, I was full expecting to get a face full of gas whilst pulling it out but the system was completely dry so the only thing the AC button was doing was giving a nice placebo effect!
The engine bay is a little emptier with it removed:
Some ballast from the boot was also taken out:
I've also decided to give the "Airbox mod" a try to see if it gives a little more induction noise:
With it all back together I filled it with Honda type 2 coolant and bled/burped as per the DIYguys guide, I was happy to hear the fans kick in too so the new fan switch has worked.
That just leaves the brakes, I have a set of Stoptech Sport pads to go on:
I use these on the MX5 and they work pretty well, they're not particularly aggressive but cope with the heat on track and last well, plus they're really cheap! I think they should be decent enough for now since I don't have that much tyre grip and it will let me compare them to some proper race style pads later on.
I'll hopefully get those fitted tomorrow and bedded in ready for next week, then see if I can get a few more laps in round Knockhill without issue!
09-15-2021, 09:56 AM
#47
Registered User
Thread Starter
Update from the track night at Knockhill on 08-09-21; it was hot, very hot! 27deg C but I'm glad to say the engine temps stayed completely normal and no more than 3 bars on the oem gauge this time so the new koyorad and coolant flush has fixed the overheating, the fans also kick in as expected with the new fan switch although even these weren't needed.
Before the track night and whilst fitting the new brake pads before the track day I noticed one of the drop links on the rear anti roll bar had popped off, I ordered a new set and thankfully they turned up 1 hour before I had to leave for the track night... and just after after I'd driven 4 1/2 hours home to go for the track day
As well as fitting that I also had fun trying to clean up the piston on one of the rear calipers as this is what I found when fitting the pads:
No dust boot, so obviously the piston had started to rust and seize.
On the way to the track it was also clear that re-balancing the wheels for a third time hadn't fixed the bad vibration either but I carried on anyway.
On track the balance of the car was completely different so clearly the rear anti roll bar link had popped off either before or pretty early on the first track day I did, with it re-connected I can understand why the S2k has a reputation for being snappy! The turn in was much improved this time but you can't throw it into the corners (like an MX5) or it feels like it will swap ends.
I was able to push the car a little bit more with the understeer gone but was a little wary of it and the brakes were still not as good as I'd hoped, the new stoptech pads are better but the car is still a little unstable under braking which may just be down to the worn bushes/alignment/leaking shock.... Not getting the pads properly bedded in before the track night also didn't help and seen all four corners smoking away after the first couple of runs (and more melted paint on the wheels).
I was more consistent with the laps though now that I could stay out longer and improved my lap time a bit down to 64.4 but you can see from the photos that the tyres are still not being worked properly, some negative camber is really needed. I'm also not impressed with the NS2R's as I did overheat them quite easily a few times and they just completely lose all grip at that point which relay doesn't inspire confidence!
(Photos courtesy of Flix/DB Media)
Another very shakey video of some of the better laps:
I had hoped to get another track day in next month but don't fancy doing another whilst the vibration is still there so I think I'll concentrate on getting my garage ready to do some major work on the S2K over the winter.
Before the track night and whilst fitting the new brake pads before the track day I noticed one of the drop links on the rear anti roll bar had popped off, I ordered a new set and thankfully they turned up 1 hour before I had to leave for the track night... and just after after I'd driven 4 1/2 hours home to go for the track day
As well as fitting that I also had fun trying to clean up the piston on one of the rear calipers as this is what I found when fitting the pads:No dust boot, so obviously the piston had started to rust and seize.
On the way to the track it was also clear that re-balancing the wheels for a third time hadn't fixed the bad vibration either but I carried on anyway.
On track the balance of the car was completely different so clearly the rear anti roll bar link had popped off either before or pretty early on the first track day I did, with it re-connected I can understand why the S2k has a reputation for being snappy! The turn in was much improved this time but you can't throw it into the corners (like an MX5) or it feels like it will swap ends.
I was able to push the car a little bit more with the understeer gone but was a little wary of it and the brakes were still not as good as I'd hoped, the new stoptech pads are better but the car is still a little unstable under braking which may just be down to the worn bushes/alignment/leaking shock.... Not getting the pads properly bedded in before the track night also didn't help and seen all four corners smoking away after the first couple of runs (and more melted paint on the wheels).
I was more consistent with the laps though now that I could stay out longer and improved my lap time a bit down to 64.4 but you can see from the photos that the tyres are still not being worked properly, some negative camber is really needed. I'm also not impressed with the NS2R's as I did overheat them quite easily a few times and they just completely lose all grip at that point which relay doesn't inspire confidence!
(Photos courtesy of Flix/DB Media)
Another very shakey video of some of the better laps:
I had hoped to get another track day in next month but don't fancy doing another whilst the vibration is still there so I think I'll concentrate on getting my garage ready to do some major work on the S2K over the winter.
09-16-2021, 07:18 AM
#48
Looks like a cracking night to be out playing :-) And pleased to see you had the roof down for at least some of it! :-) Not sure what your plans are but I might have a spare non-leaking shock (depending which corner it is) you can have if it's of any use..?
I noticed you've got your towing eye in - is that just personal preference or is it good etiquette for track days? I've booked up for next month to hopefully give mine a stretch, although if it lashes down I might take the daily instead (stupid move sticking AD08s on then booking a track session in Scotland, in October lol)
And do you use an app for lap times? If so, which one? I'm not expecting to be fast, but I'm hoping I might get fast-er through the session..
I noticed you've got your towing eye in - is that just personal preference or is it good etiquette for track days? I've booked up for next month to hopefully give mine a stretch, although if it lashes down I might take the daily instead (stupid move sticking AD08s on then booking a track session in Scotland, in October lol)
And do you use an app for lap times? If so, which one? I'm not expecting to be fast, but I'm hoping I might get fast-er through the session..
09-16-2021, 08:09 AM
#49
UK Moderator
Towing eyes are generally recommended for track days. The marshals will attach a rope somewhere you might not want it should you need a tow at any point.
Most track day organisers frown on people using timing devices (though these days it's impossible to police). I always used to take video, as well as recording GPS data on my phone, and then put it all together afterwards.
Chasing lap times live is probably not a good idea as you might overdo things in order to try to beat your best time.
Loads of phone apps out there, Harry's Lap Timer being well established and with lots of features.
I used to use RaceRender to put the overlays together - you could customise things pretty well - this lap was 7 seconds faster than the fastest lap in the F1 this year
:
Most track day organisers frown on people using timing devices (though these days it's impossible to police). I always used to take video, as well as recording GPS data on my phone, and then put it all together afterwards.
Chasing lap times live is probably not a good idea as you might overdo things in order to try to beat your best time.
Loads of phone apps out there, Harry's Lap Timer being well established and with lots of features.
I used to use RaceRender to put the overlays together - you could customise things pretty well - this lap was 7 seconds faster than the fastest lap in the F1 this year
:Last edited by lovegroova; 09-16-2021 at 08:14 AM.
09-16-2021, 11:27 AM
#50
Nice one, cheers for the info! :-) I'll endeavour to attach my towing eye in advance in case I need help from the staff!
Cool video too-did you have the track to yourself?!
I only really want the timings to review afterwards, rather than while driving, so will check out your suggestions! Would be cool if I can combine with any footage I manage to get! :-)
Cool video too-did you have the track to yourself?!
I only really want the timings to review afterwards, rather than while driving, so will check out your suggestions! Would be cool if I can combine with any footage I manage to get! :-)