Thoughts for IMPROVING the community
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Niles, IL
Ive been gone from here for awhile, but 4-5 years ago this was the best car community i ever been a part of...I hope not too much had changed since then >.<
I'm not even sure who left and whos still here from old crew =) I only saw like 4 people posting, and there was easily 20-25+ car nuts there. Everyone was mature, no burn outs(ok except that one time Pinyo by Meyers
), no loud music etc great meets, good friends....I just hope those people are still around.
I'm not even sure who left and whos still here from old crew =) I only saw like 4 people posting, and there was easily 20-25+ car nuts there. Everyone was mature, no burn outs(ok except that one time Pinyo by Meyers
), no loud music etc great meets, good friends....I just hope those people are still around.
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by Mondo131,Mar 30 2010, 12:46 AM
Just get together and have fun. If someone is an ass hat. Ignore them. Grow up people this isn't Junior High.
You go to a fast food chain, lets use q'doba, dumbass 1 does a burnout in the parking lot. dumbass 1 attracts the attention of the local police, local police come into a parking lot and see a group of people standing around, those people all get tickets for one of many things, as example loitering, trespassing, etc etc.
A simple doughnut can get you a,
"Class A Misdemeanor
The penalty for a Class A misdemeanor may include a fine up to $10,000, or imprisonment for up to 9 months, or both; however, for a repeat offender, the term of imprisonment may increase up to 2 years."
Originally Posted by K1ngfunK
I would say Chris that I don't really like the idea of "official" vs. "unofficial" meets being determined on whether or not a CO attends. Lets say, for instance, one says they are able to attend, so we consider it "official", but something comes up last-minute? Is that no longer an official meet? Personally, (and again I'm just spouting my opinion here) I see "official" meets being anything posted on the forum, as that makes it an invite to all who see it, where-as "unofficial" meets are things where some people within the community may contact each other outside of the public forum to get together and do something. Again, this is just how I see it.
I am NOT saying members shouldn't attend unofficial meets, perhaps we don't need a CO but perhaps a set of rules must be posted to make a meet an official meet. The euro guys have a rule set with every meet they make, if you don't follow the rules you can get banned from the forums and maybe even get the cops called on you. Every meet they have had and in which no one has broken the rules, they have never been kicked out of a location or had the cops called on them.
So maybe just a rule set?
Better ideas?
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: On a rock wall somewhere...
I agree that voting is important for major board changes, leadership changes, and the like. I also agree that starting such a process NOW is a bit too early as there are still people who are not as active on the boards until things really start to warm up. Perhaps April or even May. No later than May.
Should things be needed to get done NOW, an interim CO could be put into place, aided by an outside source (maybe?) and allow a regular nomination and voting session take place to allow the WHOLE community that be owners and non-owners, to vote. And I say non-owners NEED to be allowed in this process as they are on this site, they are therefore part of this community. This should not be a popularity test, but to actually read what the Nominees have to offer, their plans, how they would operate, and moderate. I understand that this may be too much, but it's important. And for others to be able to read this and form an opinion on each nominee and then vote on it, gives responsibility to everyone.
The interim CO WOULD be eligible for permanent position.
I also agree that more meets need to be held. I've been a supporter of one that another individual here tried to get going, but it died off. I honestly can say I've never been to more meets than last year, but meets ARE very important. These meets DO need to be regulated in a very mature sense with regard to our conduct both IN and OUT of the vehicle. ALSO! I think it is important that should a meet take place at a business or be in their parking-lot, the business be informed, and permission granted. Were we to just show up, things could get nasty, as Zgradis pointed out.
Tech days are great events, and of the ones I've been to seem to attract the most people and cars. I've gotten wind of some meets that used to take place in the past that start out with huge attendance, and then fall back with each year. These Annual events, though sound great, may be too "been there, done that..." maybe? I dunno. I've never been to one. The Freshwater tour comes to mind though I was not involved here when those were going on. DERF's Poker-Runs were brought up as an Annual meet that started great, but as the years rolled on, it lost attendance and finally went to pasture.
What does this have to do with anything? Well, first off, I think meets like this are STILL viable and can attain great attendance. BUT they need to be once every other year or perhaps once every four? Kind of like the Olympics or Soccer World Cup. I would also support a variety of different smaller meets that may cater to specific groups of people here in the UMW. Show, track, special interest... while this may seem to separate the community as a whole, it does bring people with similar interests together in addition to the car itself and create a tighter bond with those individuals... Not sure if that would work, but its a thought.
Rules. Rules are important. Rules of conduct at meets I believe should be at the forefront of this, as meets can dictate how the general public and businesses perceives us the most. Rules of posting and conduct on the forums should be second to rules of meets. Does this mean that we all aught to have the formal mannerisms of an expensive opera audience? No. The rules should have flexible "gray area" set, and also "concrete" set (such as in-vehicle conduct at a meet. i.e. no engine revving, no burnouts, ect. ect...)
I've heard and seen (and been obliviously part of) back-stabbings that have taken place recently. These sort of things NEED to stop. Personalities of acid and alkaline, are bound to just create animosity. We, as a community, cannot afford this at the moment. I try to get along with everyone that I can. But I also understand there will be from time to time, people that just will not mix with me. In all seriousness, if two or more members cannot get along on the boards or at meets, then the affected parties must be made aware that membership/ involvement with this community will be halted. WE as a community, do not need to be brought into personal arguments. Such differences should be resolved privately. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but please keep the "that guy over there is a this.", "this guy is such a that." out of the community. I'm not going to lie, I've been a part of such actions in the past myself. But seeing as how this community is falling apart by the foundations, WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS!!! A continuation of such actions should result in two warnings. No more, no less. This should apply to all rule sets.
Perhaps I dragged on a bit too much. I'm kinda tired right now, and I do not have any intent of bringing back the negativity of another thread. But the negativity IS an issue and NEEDS to be addressed, weather toward the current affected parties or future. Such negativity is, as other members have stated, toxic. So if an infection spreads too far, amputation(s) must be done.
Should things be needed to get done NOW, an interim CO could be put into place, aided by an outside source (maybe?) and allow a regular nomination and voting session take place to allow the WHOLE community that be owners and non-owners, to vote. And I say non-owners NEED to be allowed in this process as they are on this site, they are therefore part of this community. This should not be a popularity test, but to actually read what the Nominees have to offer, their plans, how they would operate, and moderate. I understand that this may be too much, but it's important. And for others to be able to read this and form an opinion on each nominee and then vote on it, gives responsibility to everyone.
The interim CO WOULD be eligible for permanent position.
I also agree that more meets need to be held. I've been a supporter of one that another individual here tried to get going, but it died off. I honestly can say I've never been to more meets than last year, but meets ARE very important. These meets DO need to be regulated in a very mature sense with regard to our conduct both IN and OUT of the vehicle. ALSO! I think it is important that should a meet take place at a business or be in their parking-lot, the business be informed, and permission granted. Were we to just show up, things could get nasty, as Zgradis pointed out.
Tech days are great events, and of the ones I've been to seem to attract the most people and cars. I've gotten wind of some meets that used to take place in the past that start out with huge attendance, and then fall back with each year. These Annual events, though sound great, may be too "been there, done that..." maybe? I dunno. I've never been to one. The Freshwater tour comes to mind though I was not involved here when those were going on. DERF's Poker-Runs were brought up as an Annual meet that started great, but as the years rolled on, it lost attendance and finally went to pasture.
What does this have to do with anything? Well, first off, I think meets like this are STILL viable and can attain great attendance. BUT they need to be once every other year or perhaps once every four? Kind of like the Olympics or Soccer World Cup. I would also support a variety of different smaller meets that may cater to specific groups of people here in the UMW. Show, track, special interest... while this may seem to separate the community as a whole, it does bring people with similar interests together in addition to the car itself and create a tighter bond with those individuals... Not sure if that would work, but its a thought.
Rules. Rules are important. Rules of conduct at meets I believe should be at the forefront of this, as meets can dictate how the general public and businesses perceives us the most. Rules of posting and conduct on the forums should be second to rules of meets. Does this mean that we all aught to have the formal mannerisms of an expensive opera audience? No. The rules should have flexible "gray area" set, and also "concrete" set (such as in-vehicle conduct at a meet. i.e. no engine revving, no burnouts, ect. ect...)
I've heard and seen (and been obliviously part of) back-stabbings that have taken place recently. These sort of things NEED to stop. Personalities of acid and alkaline, are bound to just create animosity. We, as a community, cannot afford this at the moment. I try to get along with everyone that I can. But I also understand there will be from time to time, people that just will not mix with me. In all seriousness, if two or more members cannot get along on the boards or at meets, then the affected parties must be made aware that membership/ involvement with this community will be halted. WE as a community, do not need to be brought into personal arguments. Such differences should be resolved privately. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but please keep the "that guy over there is a this.", "this guy is such a that." out of the community. I'm not going to lie, I've been a part of such actions in the past myself. But seeing as how this community is falling apart by the foundations, WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS!!! A continuation of such actions should result in two warnings. No more, no less. This should apply to all rule sets.
Perhaps I dragged on a bit too much. I'm kinda tired right now, and I do not have any intent of bringing back the negativity of another thread. But the negativity IS an issue and NEEDS to be addressed, weather toward the current affected parties or future. Such negativity is, as other members have stated, toxic. So if an infection spreads too far, amputation(s) must be done.
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Joined: May 2007
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From: The land of corruption, cachaça, and caipirinhas.
Paul and Chris, I 100% approve of a fairly solid rule set to be enacted at meets. I certainly think the vast majority of members whom I've met in person at one or more meets would abide by these, and luckily most already do (abide by the kinds of rules I would expect to see). I know I've been at various car meets where people were pulling stuff that frankly made me feel uncomfortable, sometimes causing me to leave early. I would like to believe we've always had a pretty good reputation as a community based on our level-headed-ness at meets, but there has been some asshattery on very rare occasions.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,093
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From: Central Wisconsin
Agree'd on meet rules.
Madison has a great car scene. The bad thing is that most of the people out here are immature clowns. Last season we we're kicked out of the Arbys parking lot because our group got too big. Cop came by, I asked where to go. They said "home". There is an empty parking lot next to a closed down restaurant that I asked if we could use. Cop gave us the go ahead since there were no loitering or no trespassing signs posted.
Two idiots decided it was a good idea to start doing burnouts in the strip mall parking lot it was a part of. Next day the cops are there to make sure we don't park.
This does not need to happen at meets we attend. If people want to have fun with their cars, by all means do it. Just not when it is at, near, or close to our meeting locations.
Madison has a great car scene. The bad thing is that most of the people out here are immature clowns. Last season we we're kicked out of the Arbys parking lot because our group got too big. Cop came by, I asked where to go. They said "home". There is an empty parking lot next to a closed down restaurant that I asked if we could use. Cop gave us the go ahead since there were no loitering or no trespassing signs posted.
Two idiots decided it was a good idea to start doing burnouts in the strip mall parking lot it was a part of. Next day the cops are there to make sure we don't park.
This does not need to happen at meets we attend. If people want to have fun with their cars, by all means do it. Just not when it is at, near, or close to our meeting locations.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,426
Likes: 5
From: Royal Oak, Michigan
Wow, I really missed alot in a few hours. I'd echo all the wonderful comments people have stated about this community; however, I'd like to have a say on a few other points:
1. One thing I don't like is threads getting locked just because an open discussion appears to be getting quite heated. In general, there is too much locking of threads. Maybe it's the attorney/litigator in me that sadistically enjoys a good argument, or maybe its my liberal "freedom of speach" attitude that knows that opinions should not be discouraged however immaturely or inarticulately presented. It should be obvious that there are alternatives to locking threads. I would say that the first step might include contacting the particular person whom you believe has made an inappropriate post to either (1) get a better explanation or (2) have that person post an appropriate recant, withdrawal or appology. Only as a very last resort do I think threads should be locked because that practice discourages everyones opinion, except maybe for the loudest voices (or those that are IBTL - "in before the lock").
2. I've never quite understood the history of the S2000 community. I found this site very shortly after purchasing my S2000 in March of 2006 -- the first meet I attended was in May 2006 and was organized by myblueheaven here in the Detroit area. I joined and participated because I found audiworld.com very helpful with regard to my A4. I wasn't even aware of www.s2kca.com until later when I heard stories of them splitting off early on. I've realized that even though some people are on both boards, others are not, and there has always been some lingering animosity or disconnect that I don't personally have a grasp on. If anyone can explain the root of this, I'd be happy to hear an open response. An S2000 community divided against itself cannot stand.
3. Speaking of the other site, I was recently contacted by one of the members/organizers of the other site (George and Wees a/k/a Greekboy) and provided a roster of local owners (i.e., Michigan owners, mostly S.E. Michigan). I was surprised how many local owners that existed on their list that I was not aware of. In turn, I provided Wees with the contact information I knew of local Michigan owners that I have met through this site. Hopefully, the Michigan S2000 community can grow irrespective of forum affiliation. It is about the people.
4. I have not been to many meets outside MI, the only ones we've been to are the dragon events, an Ohio museum meet and Charlie's Milwaukee meet earlier this year; so, I am not very in tune with all the ins and outs of the chicago group of owners. I would like to personally say a few words in support of Pete since I personally believe that Urmil has harshly characterized his attitude. Let me first say though that I have nothing bad to say about Urmil. I think Urmil has contributed a wealth of information to this community, and has served the community very well indeed. I have no complaints at all about Urmil up to this point. I respectfully disagree with him characterizing Pete's attitude as so negative. Pete has always been very welcoming to me (an out-of-towner as far as the chicago group goes), and has personally gone out of his way to help me with other non car related issues. He has very much gone above and beyond anything that would be expected. I will say, that my impression is that Pete takes a hard stand on some things, but it is his right to be opinionated, even though I do not always agree with everything Pete has said, I still think his voice should be heard. (see point #1).
Edit: I'm sorry Sam that I referenced the past as you asked that we not do, but I don't think its fair that the first to post or the loudest voices get heard and the others don't.
1. One thing I don't like is threads getting locked just because an open discussion appears to be getting quite heated. In general, there is too much locking of threads. Maybe it's the attorney/litigator in me that sadistically enjoys a good argument, or maybe its my liberal "freedom of speach" attitude that knows that opinions should not be discouraged however immaturely or inarticulately presented. It should be obvious that there are alternatives to locking threads. I would say that the first step might include contacting the particular person whom you believe has made an inappropriate post to either (1) get a better explanation or (2) have that person post an appropriate recant, withdrawal or appology. Only as a very last resort do I think threads should be locked because that practice discourages everyones opinion, except maybe for the loudest voices (or those that are IBTL - "in before the lock").
2. I've never quite understood the history of the S2000 community. I found this site very shortly after purchasing my S2000 in March of 2006 -- the first meet I attended was in May 2006 and was organized by myblueheaven here in the Detroit area. I joined and participated because I found audiworld.com very helpful with regard to my A4. I wasn't even aware of www.s2kca.com until later when I heard stories of them splitting off early on. I've realized that even though some people are on both boards, others are not, and there has always been some lingering animosity or disconnect that I don't personally have a grasp on. If anyone can explain the root of this, I'd be happy to hear an open response. An S2000 community divided against itself cannot stand.
3. Speaking of the other site, I was recently contacted by one of the members/organizers of the other site (George and Wees a/k/a Greekboy) and provided a roster of local owners (i.e., Michigan owners, mostly S.E. Michigan). I was surprised how many local owners that existed on their list that I was not aware of. In turn, I provided Wees with the contact information I knew of local Michigan owners that I have met through this site. Hopefully, the Michigan S2000 community can grow irrespective of forum affiliation. It is about the people.
4. I have not been to many meets outside MI, the only ones we've been to are the dragon events, an Ohio museum meet and Charlie's Milwaukee meet earlier this year; so, I am not very in tune with all the ins and outs of the chicago group of owners. I would like to personally say a few words in support of Pete since I personally believe that Urmil has harshly characterized his attitude. Let me first say though that I have nothing bad to say about Urmil. I think Urmil has contributed a wealth of information to this community, and has served the community very well indeed. I have no complaints at all about Urmil up to this point. I respectfully disagree with him characterizing Pete's attitude as so negative. Pete has always been very welcoming to me (an out-of-towner as far as the chicago group goes), and has personally gone out of his way to help me with other non car related issues. He has very much gone above and beyond anything that would be expected. I will say, that my impression is that Pete takes a hard stand on some things, but it is his right to be opinionated, even though I do not always agree with everything Pete has said, I still think his voice should be heard. (see point #1).
Edit: I'm sorry Sam that I referenced the past as you asked that we not do, but I don't think its fair that the first to post or the loudest voices get heard and the others don't.
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Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Chicago S. Burbs
1 person per state seems like so little, there should also be people running different areas chicago, north suburbs, west suburbs and so on. This way one person doesnt have to take on all the responsibility of communicating with all the people, everything will be broken down and easier to handle. Well that's just my opinion I hope others agree with me. This way one person cant be blamed or treated like crap if members do not agree with something.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 528
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From: Chicago
I'm still new to car forums and to online forums in general, so pardon my newbiness, but what's "asshatary?" I'm not going to bother offering my thoughts on all this - I didn't even know any of this was going on.