DavidM

There's a PROCAR meet at Winton this weekend. In the APCC (ie. production cars) class there is an S2000 so it is interesting to see what lap-times it's doing. btw, the APCC cars are allowed:
- custom (no need to be legal) exhaust
- custom ECU
- custom spings, shocks and swaybars
- R-spec tyres
- racing seats
- rollcage and safty other equipment

Here are the best lap-times from this weekend so far:
- Subaru Liberty GT (Chris Alajajian) = 1:39.46
- Commodore VY (Scott Loadsman) = 1:39.70
- VW Beetle RS (Steve Grocl) = 1:40.76
- S2000 (Drew Russell) = 1:41.49
- Falcon XR6 Turbo (David Ryan) = 1:41.77
- Toyota Celica SX (David Ratcliff) = 1:42.45
- Falcon BA XR8 (John Houlder) = 1:42.64
- Toyota Corolla Sport (Leanne Ferrier) = 1:42.67
- Proton Satria GTi (David Russell) = 1:43.11
- Holden Astra SRi (Martin Doxey) = 1:43.11
- DC2 Integra Type-R (Ian Luff) = 1:43.65
- Alfa Romeo 156 GTA (Andrew Leithhead) = 1:43.76
- Daihatsu Copen (Rick Bates) = 1:45.90

The S2000 is not much quicker than Yellafella's time in his S2000 with R-spec rubber (ie. 1:42.5). Though, all the other cars look very quick ... amazing what a chip/exhaust and suspension can do for the cars. Like the 1:39.46 for the Liberty GT and 1:39.70 for Commodore SS!!. Heck, I'm impressed by the 1:42.45 time from a Corolla.

Still, to put these tmes into perspective, here is what the GTP cars are managing (and hence you can probably guess at the scope of mods that they are allowed):
- Mazda RX-7 Series 8 (Ric Shaw) = 1:32.34
- VW Golf R32 (Paul Stokell) = 1:32.52
- HSV GTS VY (Peter Floyd) = 1:32.70
- Subaru WRX STi (Justin Hemmes) = 1:33.76
- Lancer EVOVIII (Barry Morcom) = 1:33.87
- BMW e46 M3 (Beric Lynton) = 1:33.95

tafka TMB

Ditto with the DC2 ITR. My car has done 1:43.9 (with someone else driving) with just pads, braided brake lines and R spec tyres.

I think that there must be another reason why the cars aren't that much quicker than "our" stock times DavidM.

naishou

Maybe the track was a bit wet. Do these cars carry ballast? A lot of categories these days seem to use extra weight for parity.

DavidM

Maybe the track was a bit wet.

Some of the sessions were wet. Though, the times where the above-stated times were set were in the dry. In the wet the cars had a hard time braking sub 1:50.

A lot of categories these days seem to use extra weight for parity.

Yes, there can be some weight involved, but for that (as far as I know), you need to win. I think they 'handicap' the top 3 finishers with extra weight ... which is dropped after the next race when/if the car does not finish in top 3. Still, I'd be surpised to see that the S2000 is carrying extra weight as it nver finsihed that high up (this year), and also it did manage 1:28.34 at Sandown ... that's almost 3sec quicker than the best S2000 time so far (which was me with R-spec rubber at the back).

Ditto with the DC2 ITR. My car has done 1:43.9 (with someone else driving) with just pads, braided brake lines and R spec tyres.

The IT-R had some problems in the very 1st session so it's true speed was not shown :-( Here's are the details: http://www.procar.com.au/newsitem.asp?news_id=1445. Ian Luff is not listed in qualifying, and neither of the races, so I pressume that the problem was terminal.

Though, the ITR is often is the quickest car in it's class so it would have been interesing to see how quick be could have been at Winton. I'd expect sub 1:41 time goinmg by the Sandown time (listed bellow).

I think that there must be another reason why the cars aren't that much quicker than "our" stock times DavidM.

The IT-R and S2000 times from Winton do not look that impressive for APCC cars. Not sure why as all the other cars look very quick ... I'm actually surprised how quick. We know that the IT-R had problems, but not sure about the S2000 ... maybe the driver just could not come to grips with Winton? I don't know ... going by the times from the previous round at Sandown, I'd expect the S2000 putting down 1:40 flat at Winton (if not 1:39s).

Here are the Sandown times:
- Commodore VY (Scott Loadsman) = 1:26.43
- Subaru Liberty GT (Chris Alajajian) = 1:27.00
- S2000 (Drew Russell) = 1:28.34
- DC2 Integra Type-R (Ian Luff) = 1:28.75
- Falcon BA XR8 (John Houlder) = 1:28.96
- VW Beetle RS (Steve Grocl) = 1:28.93
- Falcon XR6 Turbo (Steve Drake ) = 1:29.67
- Toyota Corolla Sport (Leanne Ferrier) = 1:30.33
- Toyota Celica SX (David Ratcliff) = 1:30.55
- Holden Astra SRi (Martin Doxey) = 1:34.13
- Proton Satria GTi (David Russell) = 1:35.73
- Daihatsu Copen (Rick Bates) = 1:38.24

Pretty impressive times for car with chip, exhaust, suspension and tyre mods. I'm sure I could get an S2000 with nothing but R-spec rubber into 1:30s (maybe even 1:29s if lucky) there, so that is more like the pace I'd expect. Just seems to confirm that the S2000 and IT-R were very much off the pace at Winton.

ps. How quick is the Commodore SS and Liberty GT!! I suspect that the Commodore SS is running close to 300kW, and the Liberty GT good 230kW.

Aircon

I was taken around Winton in a 360N-GT driven by alan simonsen on Sunday. He did a leisurely 1.27 with me as a passenger. It was quite a thrilling ride.

cashout

I saw this on RPM on Sunday. It was funny how little the Copen looks next to the rest. Even the Proton's look twice as big.

It gave me the idea of converting the Smart to track once the warranty is up. There is a guy in England who has put a Suzuki 1000 cc engine in one of these. That thing flies. (180 HP, or 100 more than what I have!)

slick

We spoke to Darren Palmer who was driving the S2000 at this Winton meeting last year - he said they had big problems with understeer, probably due to the fact that they replaced the Torsen diff with a locker diff.

I imagine that this would be more of a problem for the car at a tighter track like Winton than more flowing tracks like Sandown and Phillip Island.

They were also running 205 section tyres front and rear.

Austblue

Do you mean oversteer Slick? How would the diff induce understeer?

DavidM

Do you mean oversteer Slick? How would the diff induce understeer?

Because it's a 'locked' diff from what Slick says. 'Locked' means that the car does not want to turn unless theree's some wheel-spin instroduces to the rear-wheels. The V8 Supercars have 'locked' diffs as well, and they are meant to not want to turn, unless driven hard (ie. under power ... and they have plenty of it).

I wonder why they would do that? ... does not sound like a good idea to me. I'm sure it did not have a diff like this when the S2000s were in GT-P.

I was taken around Winton in a 360N-GT driven by alan simonsen on Sunday. He did a leisurely 1.27 with me as a passenger. It was quite a thrilling ride.

Lucky you ... he's an awesome driver. I think they can get to low-mid 1:20s with that car.

slick

Yes, I mean UNDERsteer. I think DavidM has kinda explained it.

I asked him why they changed the diff - I think the Torsen is fantastic on the track - he said that if you get up on the ripple strips, the Torsen will not lock, hence wheelspin and lost time.

They were running 6 degrees negative camber on the front to try and help it turn in !!!!!!!