The Core of the Problem in the Auto Industry
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Arlington Heights, IL
Originally Posted by My R2,Sep 18 2008, 12:29 PM
While I understand your point. You cannot make a direct comparison between the Military and a private company. There are WAY too many differences that make it IMPOSSIBLE to say "it worked here so it can work there"
I said you can have those things without a union, the military has them.
So what other variables are there?
"you can't have X without Y"
"A has X and no Y"
"You can't compare A!!!!"
What's missing?
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Arlington Heights, IL
Originally Posted by JoeyBalls,Sep 18 2008, 12:31 PM
Ok then get rid of all the Unions....................
Happy.
There are a lot of work rules that are not illegal, doesnt make them great
, just look at the 8 hr rest rule
Happy.
There are a lot of work rules that are not illegal, doesnt make them great
, just look at the 8 hr rest ruleIn fact, I'd be so bold to say it would be EASIER to change the rules to make it safer without the union.
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Orange County, California
Originally Posted by JoeyBalls,Sep 18 2008, 09:13 AM
nonono, I sad the Union can promote more safety issues such as more Rest requirements etc.......
Airline A with a Union requires 11 hrs rest between flights, airline B, the non Union airline only requires 8 hrs, let me explain that to you!
I get done flying, as in we open the Cabin door at 1130PM, my "rest starts" so I then have to do the post flight, go walk outside wait for the hotel van, take a 30 minute ride to the hotel, check in get undressed get to bed, its now 1230, takes me 30 minutes to fall asleep its now 1am!!!!!, well guess what !my show time is 730am, because thats 8hrs from 1130, so in order for me to be there at 730AM I have to get the hotel van at 7am, which means I have to wake up at 6am, so all in all its what 5hrs of sleep?
That sound safe to you? well believe me its not, and like that COMAIR crash FATIGUE is a very serious issue
Airline A with a Union requires 11 hrs rest between flights, airline B, the non Union airline only requires 8 hrs, let me explain that to you!
I get done flying, as in we open the Cabin door at 1130PM, my "rest starts" so I then have to do the post flight, go walk outside wait for the hotel van, take a 30 minute ride to the hotel, check in get undressed get to bed, its now 1230, takes me 30 minutes to fall asleep its now 1am!!!!!, well guess what !my show time is 730am, because thats 8hrs from 1130, so in order for me to be there at 730AM I have to get the hotel van at 7am, which means I have to wake up at 6am, so all in all its what 5hrs of sleep?
That sound safe to you? well believe me its not, and like that COMAIR crash FATIGUE is a very serious issue
Seriously, go and shadow a resident and tell me you need more required rest...
Oh and residents have no union and basically work for peanuts...
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,570
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From: New Jersey
of course you can, but it makes it easier for the PILOTS to have a UNION working for them, we have a Negotiating committee to talk with the company, of which we have a great relationship with out management.
We offer a lot more to our pilots then just attempting to bully around our management team
We offer a lot more to our pilots then just attempting to bully around our management team
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by Anrosphynx,Sep 18 2008, 09:41 AM
Oh and residents have no union and basically work for peanuts...
If I make a BIG mistake with 250 people on board, I am sure there will be more fatalities then if you botch a surgery, so yes I think rest is important to Pilots
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Orange County, California
Originally Posted by JoeyBalls,Sep 18 2008, 09:43 AM
Please.............
I make a fatal mistake 200 people die, you make one, one dies
I make a fatal mistake 200 people die, you make one, one dies
And doctors only see one patient during a 40 hour day..
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by Anrosphynx,Sep 18 2008, 09:45 AM
you serious?
And doctors only see one patient during a 40 hour day..
And doctors only see one patient during a 40 hour day..
this thread is done, where are we going with this?
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Orange County, California
Originally Posted by JoeyBalls,Sep 18 2008, 09:45 AM
Most Pilots fly around 500 PAX a day
this thread is done, where are we going with this?
this thread is done, where are we going with this?
Just don't expect everyone to feel sympathetic to your cause. Because obviously, alot of people here don't.
Further, I think this thread was geared to the automotive industry and you have somehow morphed this into the airline industry. Bad analogy.
The fact is, the union HAS hurt the auto industry, with particular emphasis on the Big 3. Denial of this fact is delusional thinking.