View Poll Results: HP -> Acceleration... not Torque!
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HP -> Acceleration... not Torque!
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: NY
Originally posted by RazorV3
higher hp with higher rpms are better, since you can take advantage of gearing.
higher hp with higher rpms are better, since you can take advantage of gearing.
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From: NY
the point of that is that adding torque makes you reach 30 MPH first, in talking 0-60 simply raising the redline will get you to 60 faster because you can run 1st gear up longer, meaning less time in the wider 2nd gear ratio. Torque IS the turning force of the wheel, shortening the ratio doesn't make you faster because you reach your HP range quicker, shortening the ratio increases wheel torque because you accelerate harder even under the power curve then you did before.
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From: Houston
Originally posted by FYRHWK1
the point of that is that adding torque makes you reach 30 MPH first, in talking 0-60 simply raising the redline will get you to 60 faster because you can run 1st gear up longer, meaning less time in the wider 2nd gear ratio. Torque IS the turning force of the wheel, shortening the ratio doesn't make you faster because you reach your HP range quicker, shortening the ratio increases wheel torque because you accelerate harder even under the power curve then you did before.
the point of that is that adding torque makes you reach 30 MPH first, in talking 0-60 simply raising the redline will get you to 60 faster because you can run 1st gear up longer, meaning less time in the wider 2nd gear ratio. Torque IS the turning force of the wheel, shortening the ratio doesn't make you faster because you reach your HP range quicker, shortening the ratio increases wheel torque because you accelerate harder even under the power curve then you did before.
Yes, torque is involved in accelerating your car, if only because we are using internal combustion engines and not rockets.
But torque is only HALF OF THE STORY. The other half is GEARING. And through much discussion in this thread and others, it should be clear that GEARING directly depends on redline (the higher the car can rev the shorter the gears you can use).
So there are two equally important factors in your car's acceleration: engine TORQUE and engine REDLINE. They are EQUALLY IMPORTANT!
You cannot just take only part of the equation of the force that accelerates your car and claim that THAT is what moves it. I could apply absolutely the same logic you are using in your posts and claim that REDLINE is what accelerates your car, and I'd be just as right as you are.
Horsepower, although not perfect, at least tries to unify these two factors (torque and redline) into a single figure. There are other factors that make horsepower imperfect (shape of the torque curve, how well is the gearing suited for the application, drivetrain losses, wheel diameter, traction, CD, e.t.c.), but it's the best we have.
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From: Houston
You can have work without torque. Launching a rocket is an example.
You can have torque without work. Pulling on a lever (and not moving it) will generate torque, but no work is being performed.
You can have torque without work. Pulling on a lever (and not moving it) will generate torque, but no work is being performed.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Redford, MI
Originally posted by FYRHWK1
I was going to stay out of this again, but let me put this as simply as it can be put, say you can reach 30 MPH in first gear at redline, now raise the cars HP without changing it's torque meaning a higher redline, does the car reach 30 faster? no, period, end of discussion on that point. Now if you raise the HP and gear it properly to make up for he extra redline (which means more RWTQ) it reaches that speed faster, torque is nothing without revolutions but we have a dyno graph telling us how much torque it has at X RPM, it all boils down to torque is what moves your car. A jet is quite different from a car, it's driven through thrust, the 2 should hardly be compared.
I was going to stay out of this again, but let me put this as simply as it can be put, say you can reach 30 MPH in first gear at redline, now raise the cars HP without changing it's torque meaning a higher redline, does the car reach 30 faster? no, period, end of discussion on that point. Now if you raise the HP and gear it properly to make up for he extra redline (which means more RWTQ) it reaches that speed faster, torque is nothing without revolutions but we have a dyno graph telling us how much torque it has at X RPM, it all boils down to torque is what moves your car. A jet is quite different from a car, it's driven through thrust, the 2 should hardly be compared.
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From: Redford, MI
Originally posted by FYRHWK1
the point of that is that adding torque makes you reach 30 MPH first, in talking 0-60 simply raising the redline will get you to 60 faster because you can run 1st gear up longer, meaning less time in the wider 2nd gear ratio. Torque IS the turning force of the wheel, shortening the ratio doesn't make you faster because you reach your HP range quicker, shortening the ratio increases wheel torque because you accelerate harder even under the power curve then you did before.
the point of that is that adding torque makes you reach 30 MPH first, in talking 0-60 simply raising the redline will get you to 60 faster because you can run 1st gear up longer, meaning less time in the wider 2nd gear ratio. Torque IS the turning force of the wheel, shortening the ratio doesn't make you faster because you reach your HP range quicker, shortening the ratio increases wheel torque because you accelerate harder even under the power curve then you did before.
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From: Redford, MI
Originally posted by FYRHWK1
or you could just get an engine with a redline in the middle of the pack producing more torque and use 3/4 as short gearing. You'll perform better, have less stress on the engine and more reliability as well as other things like gas mileage, worked for the vette compared to things like the M coupe and 360 modena.
or you could just get an engine with a redline in the middle of the pack producing more torque and use 3/4 as short gearing. You'll perform better, have less stress on the engine and more reliability as well as other things like gas mileage, worked for the vette compared to things like the M coupe and 360 modena.