Smart for Two
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Originally Posted by yellow2001,Jan 22 2008, 02:59 PM
it is way too small for the u.s. market.
http://smart-cars.blogspot.com/2008/01/for...-motorweek.html
motorweek review
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Originally Posted by FILTHY BEAST,Jan 21 2008, 03:53 PM
Metro yes, interstate no. I read in one of the rags that a guy did 500 miles in one and said it wasnt that bad.
As far as being too small fo the US market and not making financial sense for most people, I'd agree x 10. It's a seriously slow car that would hold up traffic on any commute in the US. In my travels in Europe, I'd disagree that "speeds are higher." Roads in cities and towns are far smaller than here in the US, and since population density is higher in populated areas in Europe, a car like that makes some sense. In the US, it makes little sense outside of the largest urban areas, and then only makes sense when it comes to parking.
Most people living in downtown Chicago, for example, work nearby and only need a car for travelling out of the city. They pay through the nose to live near work. A Smart would not be a desirable option for someone looking for a car only for family trips to see out of state relatives, especially when their income is going to easily support the gas in a 5 series, or Mack truck for that matter. If you live in New York or Chicago or any other dense urban center where parking is at a premium, you either have off street parking or need a car that can handle a daily commute on an expressway. If you don't need to traverse an expressway to get to work, you don't really need a car. You buy one so you don't have to wait for the bus, and so you can go out with friends, carry home that new TV, do laundry, buy groceries, pick up a new living room chair a friend is throwing out, etc. To carry cargo, in other words.
It's not the same in Europe. Many people view refrigeration as a luxury expense. Your family lives close, or you take a train. Shops routinely deliver larger goods that won't fit in a Smart. You can't get anything much larger than a Smart down your street, much less in your garage. Your community was designed and built around a single horse pulling a cart. Your daily driver is a scooter or sport bike. You use your horn to say "hello, I'm coming in," not "hello, you are a retard." Nobody lives out in the "sticks" unless they are the richest of the rich and have a wall around the palace.
There is a huge difference between Europe and North America. It's not something glossed over by saying "gas prices are rising, and soon we will be buying the same cars as Europe." It's more than gas prices or current popular culture. The differences go back thousands of years. Two thousand years from now, there will still be a huge cultural divide between Europe and the Americas that prevent American adoption of methods and social conventions that work well in Europe. I can't see how the two locales will ever want or need the same personal transportation across the board.
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From: socal
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Originally Posted by GT_2003,Jan 22 2008, 08:47 PM
if you have to say "it wasn't that bad," it WAS that bad
As far as being too small fo the US market and not making financial sense for most people, I'd agree x 10. It's a seriously slow car that would hold up traffic on any commute in the US. In my travels in Europe, I'd disagree that "speeds are higher." Roads in cities and towns are far smaller than here in the US, and since population density is higher in populated areas in Europe, a car like that makes some sense. In the US, it makes little sense outside of the largest urban areas, and then only makes sense when it comes to parking.
Most people living in downtown Chicago, for example, work nearby and only need a car for travelling out of the city. They pay through the nose to live near work. A Smart would not be a desirable option for someone looking for a car only for family trips to see out of state relatives, especially when their income is going to easily support the gas in a 5 series, or Mack truck for that matter. If you live in New York or Chicago or any other dense urban center where parking is at a premium, you either have off street parking or need a car that can handle a daily commute on an expressway. If you don't need to traverse an expressway to get to work, you don't really need a car. You buy one so you don't have to wait for the bus, and so you can go out with friends, carry home that new TV, do laundry, buy groceries, pick up a new living room chair a friend is throwing out, etc. To carry cargo, in other words.
It's not the same in Europe. Many people view refrigeration as a luxury expense. Your family lives close, or you take a train. Shops routinely deliver larger goods that won't fit in a Smart. You can't get anything much larger than a Smart down your street, much less in your garage. Your community was designed and built around a single horse pulling a cart. Your daily driver is a scooter or sport bike. You use your horn to say "hello, I'm coming in," not "hello, you are a retard." Nobody lives out in the "sticks" unless they are the richest of the rich and have a wall around the palace.
There is a huge difference between Europe and North America. It's not something glossed over by saying "gas prices are rising, and soon we will be buying the same cars as Europe." It's more than gas prices or current popular culture. The differences go back thousands of years. Two thousand years from now, there will still be a huge cultural divide between Europe and the Americas that prevent American adoption of methods and social conventions that work well in Europe. I can't see how the two locales will ever want or need the same personal transportation across the board.
As far as being too small fo the US market and not making financial sense for most people, I'd agree x 10. It's a seriously slow car that would hold up traffic on any commute in the US. In my travels in Europe, I'd disagree that "speeds are higher." Roads in cities and towns are far smaller than here in the US, and since population density is higher in populated areas in Europe, a car like that makes some sense. In the US, it makes little sense outside of the largest urban areas, and then only makes sense when it comes to parking.
Most people living in downtown Chicago, for example, work nearby and only need a car for travelling out of the city. They pay through the nose to live near work. A Smart would not be a desirable option for someone looking for a car only for family trips to see out of state relatives, especially when their income is going to easily support the gas in a 5 series, or Mack truck for that matter. If you live in New York or Chicago or any other dense urban center where parking is at a premium, you either have off street parking or need a car that can handle a daily commute on an expressway. If you don't need to traverse an expressway to get to work, you don't really need a car. You buy one so you don't have to wait for the bus, and so you can go out with friends, carry home that new TV, do laundry, buy groceries, pick up a new living room chair a friend is throwing out, etc. To carry cargo, in other words.
It's not the same in Europe. Many people view refrigeration as a luxury expense. Your family lives close, or you take a train. Shops routinely deliver larger goods that won't fit in a Smart. You can't get anything much larger than a Smart down your street, much less in your garage. Your community was designed and built around a single horse pulling a cart. Your daily driver is a scooter or sport bike. You use your horn to say "hello, I'm coming in," not "hello, you are a retard." Nobody lives out in the "sticks" unless they are the richest of the rich and have a wall around the palace.
There is a huge difference between Europe and North America. It's not something glossed over by saying "gas prices are rising, and soon we will be buying the same cars as Europe." It's more than gas prices or current popular culture. The differences go back thousands of years. Two thousand years from now, there will still be a huge cultural divide between Europe and the Americas that prevent American adoption of methods and social conventions that work well in Europe. I can't see how the two locales will ever want or need the same personal transportation across the board.
Have to look at the people who will be putting up the money to buy one. Low pay needing a car to get them to work/or school. Good mpg that will not cost them 90% of there income. The base model 11,590. With some good safety features.
A good example from the past. The VW beetle. I have read people made fun of the car, said it would never sell here.
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From: mount airy
[QUOTE=GT_2003,Jan 22 2008, 08:47 PM] if you have to say "it wasn't that bad," it WAS that bad
As far as being too small fo the US market and not making financial sense for most people, I'd agree x 10.
As far as being too small fo the US market and not making financial sense for most people, I'd agree x 10.
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From: mount airy
another point is the Smart is slow for it's power and not great mileage for it's weight.
I have a Legacy Wagon that weighs more than 3x as much as a Smart and has more than 2x the power and TQ and accelerates to 60mph 3 or 4 seconds quicker.
Why does a Smart with a better power/weight take longer to accelerate than my Legacy? If my Legacy is 19 lbs/hp and the Smart is 15 lbs/hp.
In other words if the Smart had the same power to weight as the Legacy it would only have 56hp (instead of 70hp) and it should not be that slow for it's power/weight.
Note: I am going by motorweek stated weight maybe they made a mistake but they said it weighed 1080 lbs.
Also my Legacy is rated 23/30 cty/HW which I get around 27 mixed driving.
The Smart is rated 34/40 which you would think is about 37 mixed driving. The Legacy weighs 3x as much but gets just 33% worse mileage.
Its worse if you look at a Civic which has 140hp (2x as much as the Smart) and has a EPA rating of 25/35 cty/hwy I think it's a small price to pay to get about 30 mpg in a civic but be able to accelerate faster than Fred Flinstone-car.
I have a Legacy Wagon that weighs more than 3x as much as a Smart and has more than 2x the power and TQ and accelerates to 60mph 3 or 4 seconds quicker.
Why does a Smart with a better power/weight take longer to accelerate than my Legacy? If my Legacy is 19 lbs/hp and the Smart is 15 lbs/hp.
In other words if the Smart had the same power to weight as the Legacy it would only have 56hp (instead of 70hp) and it should not be that slow for it's power/weight.
Note: I am going by motorweek stated weight maybe they made a mistake but they said it weighed 1080 lbs.
Also my Legacy is rated 23/30 cty/HW which I get around 27 mixed driving.
The Smart is rated 34/40 which you would think is about 37 mixed driving. The Legacy weighs 3x as much but gets just 33% worse mileage.
Its worse if you look at a Civic which has 140hp (2x as much as the Smart) and has a EPA rating of 25/35 cty/hwy I think it's a small price to pay to get about 30 mpg in a civic but be able to accelerate faster than Fred Flinstone-car.
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From: West Henrietta UPSTATE NY
Originally Posted by rai,Jan 21 2008, 05:04 PM
I was a bit dissapointed with the fuel economy. It's rated at 34/40 cty/hw and MW got 34 MPG on their test. Not great for just 70hp 68-TQ 1.0L 3-cylinder.
34 MPG? WTF???
It's a lightweight vehicle with a 1.0 3-cylinder. If that is the best Mercedes can do they ought to pack up shop and call it a day.
Pathetic!
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From: Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by rai,Jan 23 2008, 05:26 AM
It still PO-s me when I am behind a few cars and the light turns green and it seems like somebody is taking forever to make it thu the intersection and invariable when the car comes into view it's a Prius.
I'm exgerating a bit to show my point, but people (meaning me) will lose their minds waiting for a Smart to take 15+ seconds to get up to HW speeds.
Also these best acceleration times ie. 12+ seconds to 60 would be like people getting 5.5 sec in a S2000 that is not all the time so some times people will be driving like to get to 60 in 20 seconds which will piss off everyone.
I understand some people like to save gas, but what they don't understand is they are effecting my freedom, they drive a Prius but that does not mean they should drive as slow as humanly possible, because when you are on the street you hold up norman (ie. non-tree huggers) which I think they must love come to think of it.
I agree it would be great for a city or a retirement "golf cart" community, and I agree it looks cool and funky I just do not look forward to getting stuck behind one in a non city driving.
I'm exgerating a bit to show my point, but people (meaning me) will lose their minds waiting for a Smart to take 15+ seconds to get up to HW speeds.
Also these best acceleration times ie. 12+ seconds to 60 would be like people getting 5.5 sec in a S2000 that is not all the time so some times people will be driving like to get to 60 in 20 seconds which will piss off everyone.
I understand some people like to save gas, but what they don't understand is they are effecting my freedom, they drive a Prius but that does not mean they should drive as slow as humanly possible, because when you are on the street you hold up norman (ie. non-tree huggers) which I think they must love come to think of it.
I agree it would be great for a city or a retirement "golf cart" community, and I agree it looks cool and funky I just do not look forward to getting stuck behind one in a non city driving.
I was stuck behind one yesterday getting on to the highway. We weren't even up to 40 mph trying to merge in to a highway where people are driving 65 mph. I don't know if the person driving the Smart was gunning it for all it was worth or not, but it was very unsafe for not only the Smart to try and merge at that speed, but all the other cars stuck behind the Smart as well.
People can drive however they like, but when it becomes a safety issue like in the above situation, then that is when I start to have a problem.