Why aren't there more performance,
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 3
The CTS-V is far more exciting to drive than either the G37 or the IS350, and the second-gen model has superior interior quality as well. Black out the chrome trim and badges and you'd have a luxurious, fast, and reasonably anonymous car.
Personally, though, i'd spend $25k on an early-2000s M5 and set the rest of the 40k budget aside for maintenance. The E39 M5 puts every sports sedan built since (E90 M3 included) to shame for pure driving involvement.
Personally, though, i'd spend $25k on an early-2000s M5 and set the rest of the 40k budget aside for maintenance. The E39 M5 puts every sports sedan built since (E90 M3 included) to shame for pure driving involvement.
Same goes with the E39 M5. My buddy's boss had a beautiful '04 Le Mans M5 and he told me the car literally spent more time in the shop than on the road.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Elmsford, NY
Same goes with the E39 M5. My buddy's boss had a beautiful '04 Le Mans M5 and he told me the car literally spent more time in the shop than on the road.
[/quote]
2003 was the last year of the E39.
The M5 did have more problems than the 540.
[/quote]
2003 was the last year of the E39.
The M5 did have more problems than the 540.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 3
OP, to answer your question, I believe the real answer is because "there isn't much of a market for them".
People who buy midsize sedans typically don't do so looking for performance. A large portion of those who do prefer an automatic or automanual gearbox. What's left is a tiny fraction of buyers that car manufactures typically aren't enthusiastic about competing over.
You've listed most of the good options here. Personally, I'd give the G37 a hard look. I would test drive this as well as the TL-S.
As an aside, I wouldn't think the A4/S4 would be any less terrifying on maintenance than a BMW.
People who buy midsize sedans typically don't do so looking for performance. A large portion of those who do prefer an automatic or automanual gearbox. What's left is a tiny fraction of buyers that car manufactures typically aren't enthusiastic about competing over.
You've listed most of the good options here. Personally, I'd give the G37 a hard look. I would test drive this as well as the TL-S.
As an aside, I wouldn't think the A4/S4 would be any less terrifying on maintenance than a BMW.
The newer A4s are actually quite reliable, and given that Audi had decided to go with a blower instead of a pair of snails in their latest S4 iteration, I would venture that this setup would be far more reliable than the twin snail setup found in the 335i.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by newdriver' timestamp='1340127615' post='21794379
Buy a 335i, spend $600 on a jb4, and you have a 400+hp small sedan that is comfortable, decent-looking, and plenty of fun to drive. I've put nearly 90k miles on mine in 2.5 years (70k of which has had the jb3), and my only issue was a failed hpfp (no surprise there), which is covered by the standard warranty to 120k miles.
I think the 2013 Cadillac ATS will probably tweak your interest. Supposedly as good or better than a 3-Series w/ sport package (for handling) with plenty of power, decent interior and moderate weight. It goes on sale this summer.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ac-ats-feature
Cliffs:
Roughly same size as 3-Series
Starting weight less than 3400 lbs
RWD
Brembo brakes w/ top two motors (2.0L turbo and 3.6L V6)
FE suspension option w/ 225F/255R tires and LSD
2.0L turbo has 270 hp and 260 ft-lbs and is available with 6MT
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ac-ats-feature
Cliffs:
Roughly same size as 3-Series
Starting weight less than 3400 lbs
RWD
Brembo brakes w/ top two motors (2.0L turbo and 3.6L V6)
FE suspension option w/ 225F/255R tires and LSD
2.0L turbo has 270 hp and 260 ft-lbs and is available with 6MT
My 335 is an '09. Do a quick search, and you will see plenty of 335's with a jb4 doing 0-60 in/under 4 seconds. Mine runs right with my boss's 2nd gen cts-v, up to about 60 mph. Of course it's a different story after that!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
1 series sedan. New a3, not sure if its 3/5 door only. A class Benz. Hoping these will be out by mid 2013. Current Golf r. When the mqb platform comes for the gti/golf r/a3 expect big improvements. Im personally waiting for the fiesta st or mazda2 speed if they ever come.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,387
Likes: 0
From: Palo Alto
When it comes to Audi reliability the turbos wouldn't bother me in the least. So many other parts and the electronics would. I have a friend who is an Audi tech. He doesn't recommend them out of warranty.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
From: Fairfield County
if the grill on the TL is what is giving your chubby a limp feeling, heres what you can get to fix that
http://acuraconnected.com/2011/06/20...a-tl-aero-kit/
looks pretty damn good to me now
http://acuraconnected.com/2011/06/20...a-tl-aero-kit/
looks pretty damn good to me now
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
From: Milky way galaxy
I am in the same boat as the OP. The S2000 has to go sooner than later, and I am having a hard time finding a mid size sedan replacement.
I am leaning towards a new 328. The new turbo 4 is pretty powerful, I like the fact the engine is tucked behind the front axle for better weight balance, and it gets good gas mileage. I think this is the best option available, and I am in the same boat as the OP, and share many of the same opinions after reading the thread...
I am leaning towards a new 328. The new turbo 4 is pretty powerful, I like the fact the engine is tucked behind the front axle for better weight balance, and it gets good gas mileage. I think this is the best option available, and I am in the same boat as the OP, and share many of the same opinions after reading the thread...
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,485
Likes: 21
Originally Posted by kenstyle' timestamp='1340132814' post='21794692
[quote name='newdriver' timestamp='1340127615' post='21794379']
Buy a 335i, spend $600 on a jb4, and you have a 400+hp small sedan that is comfortable, decent-looking, and plenty of fun to drive. I've put nearly 90k miles on mine in 2.5 years (70k of which has had the jb3), and my only issue was a failed hpfp (no surprise there), which is covered by the standard warranty to 120k miles.
Buy a 335i, spend $600 on a jb4, and you have a 400+hp small sedan that is comfortable, decent-looking, and plenty of fun to drive. I've put nearly 90k miles on mine in 2.5 years (70k of which has had the jb3), and my only issue was a failed hpfp (no surprise there), which is covered by the standard warranty to 120k miles.
I think the 2013 Cadillac ATS will probably tweak your interest. Supposedly as good or better than a 3-Series w/ sport package (for handling) with plenty of power, decent interior and moderate weight. It goes on sale this summer.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ac-ats-feature
Cliffs:
Roughly same size as 3-Series
Starting weight less than 3400 lbs
RWD
Brembo brakes w/ top two motors (2.0L turbo and 3.6L V6)
FE suspension option w/ 225F/255R tires and LSD
2.0L turbo has 270 hp and 260 ft-lbs and is available with 6MT
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ac-ats-feature
Cliffs:
Roughly same size as 3-Series
Starting weight less than 3400 lbs
RWD
Brembo brakes w/ top two motors (2.0L turbo and 3.6L V6)
FE suspension option w/ 225F/255R tires and LSD
2.0L turbo has 270 hp and 260 ft-lbs and is available with 6MT
My 335 is an '09. Do a quick search, and you will see plenty of 335's with a jb4 doing 0-60 in/under 4 seconds. Mine runs right with my boss's 2nd gen cts-v, up to about 60 mph. Of course it's a different story after that!
[/quote]
You need to load the Alpha firmware and run some E85/93 mix. Some guy with a 535i with nothing but that setup and cone filter made 406 whp 440wtq. I'm running it now and it spins all of first and most of 2nd.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,756
Likes: 0
From: newcastle wa
audi electronics actually have improved a lot. i own b7 and do have few friends with b5 s4 and all of electronics have been very solid actually even in b5 s4. and i wouldn't recommend any German cars without a warranty.