Clio 197
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
It would seem that way, wouldn't it?
There was a time when Citroens & Peugeots were capable of truly stellar mileages without major overhaul; but those were the days before the European steel crisis, when newer cars were suddenly rustier than older models. Plus they are designed to be wrapped round a poplar tree before any major work is required, means that servicing is frequently extremely awkward. In fact, the engine was often in the passenger cell before the poplar tree incident, as well as afterwards.
It amused me how people here used to sneer at italian cars, which were often statistically equivalent or better in dependability and were usually somewhat easier to work on.
There was a time when Citroens & Peugeots were capable of truly stellar mileages without major overhaul; but those were the days before the European steel crisis, when newer cars were suddenly rustier than older models. Plus they are designed to be wrapped round a poplar tree before any major work is required, means that servicing is frequently extremely awkward. In fact, the engine was often in the passenger cell before the poplar tree incident, as well as afterwards.
It amused me how people here used to sneer at italian cars, which were often statistically equivalent or better in dependability and were usually somewhat easier to work on.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,326
Likes: 1
From: Ulaanbaatar
Fiat 127
Fiat 126 #1
Fiat 127 Sport #1
Fiat Panda #1
Fiat 127 Palio
Fiat 126 #2
Fiat X1/9 #1
Fiat 127 Sport #2
Fiat Panda #2
Alfa Romeo 164
Fiat Multipla
Fiat X1/9 #2
Ferrari Mondial
Fiat X1/9 #3 Lido
Fiat Punto
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,890
Likes: 5
From: New Milton, Hants
Originally Posted by Nick Graves' timestamp='1343832408' post='21904780
It amused me how people here used to sneer at italian cars, which were often statistically equivalent or better in dependability and were usually somewhat easier to work on.
Fiat 127
Fiat 126 #1
Fiat 127 Sport #1
Fiat Panda #1
Fiat 127 Palio
Fiat 126 #2
Fiat X1/9 #1
Fiat 127 Sport #2
Fiat Panda #2
Alfa Romeo 164
Fiat Multipla
Fiat X1/9 #2
Ferrari Mondial
Fiat X1/9 #3 Lido
Fiat Punto
I've looked at many FIATs and Alfas since, but never had the bottle to buy again. Looking at owner reviews of more recent cars, it looks like they've got the reliability sorted, but maybe at the expense of the dynamics........
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 31,181
Likes: 58
From: Hertford
They really shat on the dynamics with the Uno's torsion beam axle, wanky carburettors, etc and have been all at sea ever since. The engines were generally still really peppy, but the rest mediocre.
The reliability & CGAF dealers still mean bottom of the rankings with the French.
The Alfa Giulietta & Giulia look fantastic, but are supposedly set up imitating Audis. So uncomfortable & unreliable too, then. Again, I know some Alfisti who have had brilliant 147s & 156s. And then bad ones...
However; you are both right in that the italians shouldn't be quite so underbought & Audi & Reno not so overbought.
But when did perception & reality ever really align?
The reliability & CGAF dealers still mean bottom of the rankings with the French.
The Alfa Giulietta & Giulia look fantastic, but are supposedly set up imitating Audis. So uncomfortable & unreliable too, then. Again, I know some Alfisti who have had brilliant 147s & 156s. And then bad ones...
However; you are both right in that the italians shouldn't be quite so underbought & Audi & Reno not so overbought.
But when did perception & reality ever really align?
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Clio 182 Trophy is the only Clio to have. Extreamly sought after and hence keep their value well. I had one and forever regret selling it. Was a weapon on track, and never had any issues using it as my daily driver.
Registered User
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Chichester
Give me Clio V6 255 over a Trophy any day of the week.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,085
Likes: 35
From: Bruges
It would seem that way, wouldn't it?
There was a time when Citroens & Peugeots were capable of truly stellar mileages without major overhaul; but those were the days before the European steel crisis, when newer cars were suddenly rustier than older models. Plus they are designed to be wrapped round a poplar tree before any major work is required, means that servicing is frequently extremely awkward. In fact, the engine was often in the passenger cell before the poplar tree incident, as well as afterwards.
It amused me how people here used to sneer at italian cars, which were often statistically equivalent or better in dependability and were usually somewhat easier to work on.
There was a time when Citroens & Peugeots were capable of truly stellar mileages without major overhaul; but those were the days before the European steel crisis, when newer cars were suddenly rustier than older models. Plus they are designed to be wrapped round a poplar tree before any major work is required, means that servicing is frequently extremely awkward. In fact, the engine was often in the passenger cell before the poplar tree incident, as well as afterwards.
It amused me how people here used to sneer at italian cars, which were often statistically equivalent or better in dependability and were usually somewhat easier to work on.
Not that their cars are any better for that mind.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
From: Preston
Originally Posted by Fatbloke' timestamp='1343413089' post='21894185
Didn't MINIs have Toyota engines for a while, Nick, or was that just the diesel?
I'd go with the Swift Sport - that's a good recommendation......
I'd go with the Swift Sport - that's a good recommendation......
The early R56 is the one where the problems started really badly; they replaced the old Chrysler engine with a development of the ancient PSA TU engine (104 anyone?) with valvetronic and the earlier bore/stroke/moving bits. The TC tensioner fails early on with disastrous consequences. HVAC units leak plus they have the usual FRED issues and other silly things. Bloody nightmares, some of them.
The Swift is far more Toyota-like, but without the boredom.
Why they ever used a dodgy old Peugeot engine i'll never know!
I'll never have another one and can't wait to get rid of the thing.
Saying that though, when it works, it's bloody good fun to drive!