Car Talk - Non S2000 General Motoring and Non S2000 Car Talk

Turning left at roundabouts

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Old Apr 11, 2012 | 08:18 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Toully
Originally Posted by minvo' timestamp='1334077184' post='21594525
I learnt my lesson on here about a year ago. I started a thread and mentioned about some bad driving I witnessed from a biker and I got slated for being a bad driver myself. Since then I haven't mentioned anything like this in any thread and probably never will.

Hope this helps.

Minvo.

PS: It's still a great place for a chat and to get good advice on your car though. Cheers everyone!

Yep, agreed. I will definitely will watch what I say on here now which is a shame as its quite good for a bit of banter and conversation but when people start getting personal its unacceptable.
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Old Apr 11, 2012 | 08:49 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by MarkB
Originally Posted by chrispayze' timestamp='1333638122' post='21578793
The highway code has, I believe, changed in recent years. Where two lanes merge to form one (ie one lane ceases, and one carries on) it used to recommend getting into the lane that carries one as early as possible. I believe it has recently been changed to use both lanes as long as possible, thus shortening the queue and knock-on to junctions further back down the road.

Do most drivers know this, or even drive to these 'rules'? Sadly not.
I had a truck driver act as policeman by swerving in front of my car as I drove down lane 2 while he and others queued in the inside lane 800 yards before a merge on the A66 last week. Not only was he wrong, and my use of lane 2 (at a sedate speed) was within the guidelines of the highway code, but his swerve caused me to have to stand on the brakes to avoid running into the back of him - as I told the woman on the end of the 'Hows my driving' 0800 line when I reported him.

Hope he at least got a bollocking, if only for the single finger salute he gave me as he pulled out.
what were the merge instructions, if any?

if merge in turn he was wrong

if there were road closed indicators well before the point you ran into trouble you should probably have anticipated it (although he was still wrong to do what he did)

the concept of merging works when ALL parties play ball

unfortunately many seem to think merging is defined by barrelling down the outside (or inside) lane for as long as possible and then forcing someone to give way - usually accompanied by some bollox about making the best use of all available road space

otoh, if more people merged earlier it would probably result in smoother traffic flow

it only takes one person to refuse to do that (in the absence of merge in turn signs) and chaos often ensures

fwiw I believe all road closures should have use both lanes/merge in turn signs
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 12:40 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by gaddafi
Originally Posted by Toully' timestamp='1334153564' post='21597247
[quote name='minvo' timestamp='1334077184' post='21594525']
I learnt my lesson on here about a year ago. I started a thread and mentioned about some bad driving I witnessed from a biker and I got slated for being a bad driver myself. Since then I haven't mentioned anything like this in any thread and probably never will.

Hope this helps.

Minvo.

PS: It's still a great place for a chat and to get good advice on your car though. Cheers everyone!

Yep, agreed. I will definitely will watch what I say on here now which is a shame as its quite good for a bit of banter and conversation but when people start getting personal its unacceptable.
bless
[/quote]

You had to say something didn't you?? Couldn't just leave well alone. Muppet!
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 12:57 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by gaddafi
Originally Posted by MarkB' timestamp='1334151897' post='21597164
[quote name='chrispayze' timestamp='1333638122' post='21578793']
The highway code has, I believe, changed in recent years. Where two lanes merge to form one (ie one lane ceases, and one carries on) it used to recommend getting into the lane that carries one as early as possible. I believe it has recently been changed to use both lanes as long as possible, thus shortening the queue and knock-on to junctions further back down the road.

Do most drivers know this, or even drive to these 'rules'? Sadly not.
I had a truck driver act as policeman by swerving in front of my car as I drove down lane 2 while he and others queued in the inside lane 800 yards before a merge on the A66 last week. Not only was he wrong, and my use of lane 2 (at a sedate speed) was within the guidelines of the highway code, but his swerve caused me to have to stand on the brakes to avoid running into the back of him - as I told the woman on the end of the 'Hows my driving' 0800 line when I reported him.

Hope he at least got a bollocking, if only for the single finger salute he gave me as he pulled out.
what were the merge instructions, if any?

if merge in turn he was wrong

if there were road closed indicators well before the point you ran into trouble you should probably have anticipated it (although he was still wrong to do what he did)

the concept of merging works when ALL parties play ball

unfortunately many seem to think merging is defined by barrelling down the outside (or inside) lane for as long as possible and then forcing someone to give way - usually accompanied by some bollox about making the best use of all available road space

otoh, if more people merged earlier it would probably result in smoother traffic flow

it only takes one person to refuse to do that (in the absence of merge in turn signs) and chaos often ensures

fwiw I believe all road closures should have use both lanes/merge in turn signs
[/quote]

The queue started before the lane closure signs, there were roadworks signs IIRC but that was it. I was in the outside lane for a few hundred yards after the first sign and at the 'lane closed in 800 yds sign' (ie. the first indication of a lane closure), the truck swerved out, several cars had gone past him in front of me and I had no reason to suspect he'd decide to pull out at that point. Incidentally he did it just at the end of a slip road as a Golf was entering the traffic behind him, it was obvious to me that the Golf was about to move into lane 2 behind me as soon as I'd passed. If the Golf driver hadn't seen the truck swerve (ie. he was looking in his mirror for anything coming in lane 2) it could have been even nastier.

So pretty much at the point I was thinking I'd better look to slowing down to the speed of lane 1 (about 20mph, I was doing 30-40 on a trailing throttle), PC Truck Driver decides to become a rolling road block, closing the road 800yds before the obstruction. I'd say that constitutes DWDCAA, since apart from the obvious danger of deliberately pulling out in front of me and the Golf, he immediately moves the closure 800yds up the road and across a major junction.
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 06:13 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Toully
Originally Posted by gaddafi' timestamp='1334161097' post='21597641
[quote name='Toully' timestamp='1334153564' post='21597247']
[quote name='minvo' timestamp='1334077184' post='21594525']
I learnt my lesson on here about a year ago. I started a thread and mentioned about some bad driving I witnessed from a biker and I got slated for being a bad driver myself. Since then I haven't mentioned anything like this in any thread and probably never will.

Hope this helps.

Minvo.

PS: It's still a great place for a chat and to get good advice on your car though. Cheers everyone!

Yep, agreed. I will definitely will watch what I say on here now which is a shame as its quite good for a bit of banter and conversation but when people start getting personal its unacceptable.
bless
[/quote]

You had to say something didn't you?? Couldn't just leave well alone. Muppet!
[/quote]

what was it you were saying about abuse and getting personal?
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 06:22 AM
  #86  
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The lanes merging is an interesting one; flow studies have shown that if everyone barrelled down the fast lane & merged zipper file before the end, it disrupts flow less than tailing back & merging too early into the creepy-crawly lane. It's counter-intuitive and people probably couldn't be trusted to do it out of ineptitude/road captaincy etc.

I'd be interested to see a study into d/c roundabout d/c left-turning; it may be the case that fast-laners turning left by going round the roundabout (thus allowing the left-laners to flow consistently unimpeded) might actually improve flow rates - dependent upon other roundabout feed volumes, I'd hypothesise.
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 07:06 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Nick Graves
The lanes merging is an interesting one; flow studies have shown that if everyone barrelled down the fast lane & merged zipper file before the end, it disrupts flow less than tailing back & merging too early into the creepy-crawly lane. It's counter-intuitive and people probably couldn't be trusted to do it out of ineptitude/road captaincy etc.

I'd be interested to see a study into d/c roundabout d/c left-turning; it may be the case that fast-laners turning left by going round the roundabout (thus allowing the left-laners to flow consistently unimpeded) might actually improve flow rates - dependent upon other roundabout feed volumes, I'd hypothesise.
Re para 1, as I said, it requires two to tango. Not going to happen at speed, at least not under my definition of merging (that's the one where no-one needs to brake, swerve, etc)

Re para 2, how could traffic be consistently unimpeded in the left lane if they have to give way to traffic coming from the right?
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 11:57 AM
  #88  
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Read para 2 if it's dual carriageway all round the roundabout & in and out, it could work. Sort of like where there is a left filter lane to avoid the roundabout entirely for traffic turning left, only there's not a left filter lane to avoid the roundabout entirely for traffic turning left, sort of thing.
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 12:56 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by gaddafi
Originally Posted by Nick Graves' timestamp='1334240553' post='21600941
The lanes merging is an interesting one; flow studies have shown that if everyone barrelled down the fast lane & merged zipper file before the end, it disrupts flow less than tailing back & merging too early into the creepy-crawly lane. It's counter-intuitive and people probably couldn't be trusted to do it out of ineptitude/road captaincy etc.

I'd be interested to see a study into d/c roundabout d/c left-turning; it may be the case that fast-laners turning left by going round the roundabout (thus allowing the left-laners to flow consistently unimpeded) might actually improve flow rates - dependent upon other roundabout feed volumes, I'd hypothesise.
Re para 1, as I said, it requires two to tango. Not going to happen at speed, at least not under my definition of merging (that's the one where no-one needs to brake, swerve, etc)

Re para 2, how could traffic be consistently unimpeded in the left lane if they have to give way to traffic coming from the right?
It works in Germany. "Reisverschluss" ie zip fastener. It is normal and observed making traffic flow freely.
The left lane would not be impeded any more than the right lane . One from the left then one from the right then one from the left etc etc.
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 10:18 PM
  #90  
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Same in NL, don't know why all these simple things have to be so difficult in this country
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