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K Swap vs building F22c

 
Old 08-31-2018, 01:14 AM
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Default K Swap vs building F22c

With the F20 & F22 near extinction these days, I have been contemplating of just building a K24 swap for my S2000.

Considering the Ballade Sports’ k-swap kit ($3,100) Plus the k24 motor ($1,000) = roughly $6,000 including shipping and tax.
For those that did the k-swap, was it worth it?

Comparing the cost of a nice quality turbo kit ($6,000+), it’s equivalent of doing a k-swap. With an abundance of k motors, prices are way cheaper to replace.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:52 AM
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seems much cheaper and obviously better to swap in a LS s2000 LSx Swap Kit
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:45 AM
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One problem with the K series swaps I'd like to see a SIMPLE solution to would be oil starvation issue on the track, as far as i know they're no bolt-in oil pan baffles for RWD k series setup. https://www.circuithero.com/products...ant=1137562171 this is an option but you'd have to have it modified. If you're not going to track it then you shouldn't have to worry about it too much really.

Last edited by Gigdy; 08-31-2018 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Bickering
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by captain slowly View Post
seems much cheaper and obviously better to swap in a LS s2000 LSx Swap Kit
It's my opinion that th4e LS swap is cheaper in the long run. However it's not necessarily better. I have swapped my original (single owner) S2000 that I've owned since 2000 with an LS1. It cost me more than what I kswap would (not taking into consideration recouping money for selling the OE drive line), but I also did a lot more with my swap. Cleaned and painted engine bay, powdercoated subframes and control arms, new bushing, slight wire tuck, custom mounted main fuse box and GM ECU.....and so on.

The first year with the car after the swap was great....lots of power, 'not sounding right....but sounding ohhh, so good', etc. I felt great about this swap until I started driving my other s2000 (which was swapped from F20 to F22) and even though it's lacking on torque and V8 noise, the engine note, and characteristics of keeping momentum in engine speed keeps momentum with driving is/was still entertaining. It wasn't until taking the LS swapped S2k out to a long road trip and driving the twisties that got me un-nerved.

The LS swap is drivable, but after 18 years of learning and knowing how to drive the s2000, the LS2000 had become another beast to tame. After the road trip, I had the car retuned for a de-tune. That drive in the mountains was white-knuckled the whole way and not as fun. The LS swap makes a whole lot more sense depending on what your goals are.

If you are looking for high hp, high torque, or build a track car or a drag strip car....LS is the way to go. You can build up the motor on the cheap, motors are plentiful, tuners are plentiful, aftermarket support is plentiful, and as far as cost of swap goes....in MY OPINION....it's cheaper than Kswap (only cost more in parts when sourcing a T56, which mine has). No way would I bolt an LS to stock trans or stock rear end (I also went with GM Camaro rear end swap from the Import Muscle kit).

With that all stated, my LS swapped S2000 is meant to be my weekend warrior car. Get in go get some groceries here and there, but more importantly, be able to get in take it for a drive to The Dragon, out to Breckenridge, down to TX for the canyon runs, etc. I thoroughly enjoy taking it out to the weekend parking lot meets (both import and domestic meets), love surprising the "Murica crowd" as well as the import tuners, but the driveline has changed the characteristics of the car too much for me (it's a fun driver, but fun in a different way that I want my s2000 to be). This summer I decided that my LS swap will be swapped in favor for a K24, maybe with a turbo for small boost (I really mean small boost....like 6 to 8 pounds). The one thing I thought was really missing from the F20 was midrange power. For DD, I didn't want to have to continuously rev to 6 and 8K to have that power right at transition. There were days that I just wanted to cruise let wind blow through my hair or be able to listen to some music as I drove. I really missed that. I like the K motor a lot. I had a k swapped integra RS back in 2004. It was one of the first ones done in the country. I had more fun driving the Integra on the streets AND as the Dragon than my S2000. The motor was much more tunable, had slightly but noticeable more torque in the low to midrange than the F20 and best of all compared to an F20, was much cheaper to mod, work on and maintain, and ultimately replace if needed. The K motor is much closer to the characteristics of the F motor than the LS swap. I find that to be important....I bought the car new in 2000 for that reason. I like high hp cars, but if I want one, I will have one in a Camaro or a Corvette. I also like nimble, quick cars the S2000 or a Porsche fits that bill for me.

Hope this gives you a little insight from someone that has experience.
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Luder94 View Post
It's my opinion that th4e LS swap is cheaper in the long run. However it's not necessarily better. I have swapped my original (single owner) S2000 that I've owned since 2000 with an LS1. It cost me more than what I kswap would (not taking into consideration recouping money for selling the OE drive line), but I also did a lot more with my swap. Cleaned and painted engine bay, powdercoated subframes and control arms, new bushing, slight wire tuck, custom mounted main fuse box and GM ECU.....and so on.

The first year with the car after the swap was great....lots of power, 'not sounding right....but sounding ohhh, so good', etc. I felt great about this swap until I started driving my other s2000 (which was swapped from F20 to F22) and even though it's lacking on torque and V8 noise, the engine note, and characteristics of keeping momentum in engine speed keeps momentum with driving is/was still entertaining. It wasn't until taking the LS swapped S2k out to a long road trip and driving the twisties that got me un-nerved.

The LS swap is drivable, but after 18 years of learning and knowing how to drive the s2000, the LS2000 had become another beast to tame. After the road trip, I had the car retuned for a de-tune. That drive in the mountains was white-knuckled the whole way and not as fun. The LS swap makes a whole lot more sense depending on what your goals are.

If you are looking for high hp, high torque, or build a track car or a drag strip car....LS is the way to go. You can build up the motor on the cheap, motors are plentiful, tuners are plentiful, aftermarket support is plentiful, and as far as cost of swap goes....in MY OPINION....it's cheaper than Kswap (only cost more in parts when sourcing a T56, which mine has). No way would I bolt an LS to stock trans or stock rear end (I also went with GM Camaro rear end swap from the Import Muscle kit).

With that all stated, my LS swapped S2000 is meant to be my weekend warrior car. Get in go get some groceries here and there, but more importantly, be able to get in take it for a drive to The Dragon, out to Breckenridge, down to TX for the canyon runs, etc. I thoroughly enjoy taking it out to the weekend parking lot meets (both import and domestic meets), love surprising the "Murica crowd" as well as the import tuners, but the driveline has changed the characteristics of the car too much for me (it's a fun driver, but fun in a different way that I want my s2000 to be). This summer I decided that my LS swap will be swapped in favor for a K24, maybe with a turbo for small boost (I really mean small boost....like 6 to 8 pounds). The one thing I thought was really missing from the F20 was midrange power. For DD, I didn't want to have to continuously rev to 6 and 8K to have that power right at transition. There were days that I just wanted to cruise let wind blow through my hair or be able to listen to some music as I drove. I really missed that. I like the K motor a lot. I had a k swapped integra RS back in 2004. It was one of the first ones done in the country. I had more fun driving the Integra on the streets AND as the Dragon than my S2000. The motor was much more tunable, had slightly but noticeable more torque in the low to midrange than the F20 and best of all compared to an F20, was much cheaper to mod, work on and maintain, and ultimately replace if needed. The K motor is much closer to the characteristics of the F motor than the LS swap. I find that to be important....I bought the car new in 2000 for that reason. I like high hp cars, but if I want one, I will have one in a Camaro or a Corvette. I also like nimble, quick cars the S2000 or a Porsche fits that bill for me.

Hope this gives you a little insight from someone that has experience.
I greatly appreciate your detailed input.

Did you also purchase the Ballade Sports K swap kit: https://www.balladesports.com/produc...k2024-swap-kit

It appears as if Ballade Sports is the only company producing this K-swap kit? Unless Google search is failing me (highly unlikely).

Since I am still a "new" user, I am unable to view your profile. I was hoping you would have created a thread build of your k-swap. Any additional inputs will be appreciated. Since my S2000 is my project car, I am reading build threads/DIY/ etc.

Thanks.
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Old 08-31-2018, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by primetimeswole View Post
I greatly appreciate your detailed input.

Did you also purchase the Ballade Sports K swap kit: https://www.balladesports.com/produc...k2024-swap-kit

It appears as if Ballade Sports is the only company producing this K-swap kit? Unless Google search is failing me (highly unlikely).

Since I am still a "new" user, I am unable to view your profile. I was hoping you would have created a thread build of your k-swap. Any additional inputs will be appreciated. Since my S2000 is my project car, I am reading build threads/DIY/ etc.

Thanks.
I have not bought anything as of yet for K swap. I'm still on the fence. I've been taking my LS2000 out a couple of times a week for mundane drive (pick up coffee, go pick up one of my kids from school (take him/her to school), etc.). I still like the LS swap.....just not for what I ended up building the car for. There's part of me that's interested in taking this car to full track mode, in which case, I keep it LS swapped. This particular car is too beautiful (to me) to turn into a track only car and taking into consideration that I won't have too much time to dedicated to open track days/events with two children in prime parenting age, two businesses I'm running, etc. If I was to build another track only s2k, it wouldn't be with this one....but it'd for sure be an LS swap. K swap is nice, but LS swap is cheaper and has much more flexibility.

If I rebuild my LS2000, I'm not sure I'll use Ballade components. Knowing what I know on cost of and time to have my own adaptor and trans mounts made, I may go that route. I'll go with hasport mounts, have a friend make a custom header and water hose elbow, make my own jumper harness, and K-Pro. We'll see though. I've heard of rumors of other companies coming out with their own full Kswap kits. I don't plan to do anything right away, if I do, it'll probably start in late fall or early winter. I'll part out the GM driveline first (if anyone knows of anyone interested in turnkey swap components let me know). WHatevever I sell the LS swap for will fund my Kswap.

Being on S2Ki so long, I posted my mods and pics of my cars here and there. I did do one build thread for my wife's s2k years back. I'll try to put in effort to put together a build thread for this one...we'll see.


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Old 08-31-2018, 11:05 AM
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Swaps are fun! Love my LS1/T56 swap. Changed the car for the better IMHO in every possible way. Wouldn't change it for the world!! Fortunately for me it wasn't very expensive as the Vortech S/C kit (which I bought the car with) and other parts (Engine, trans, etc) not needed anymore almost paid for the swap. Best of luck whatever swap you choose!!
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:42 PM
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it really depends on what you want and how much power you want out of the car. To me i love the f20c/f22c because they are very strong engines and when boosted can take 600whp+ 100% stock with no issues what so ever. I have had my stock f20c at over 600whp for many many years. It had 135k miles and been boosted since 80k. The only point of a k swap in my opinion is if you wanted like some where around 300hp with out going forced induction. k motors are far Superior for all motor builds compared to a f series. But in my opinion it cost a lot to build a 300whp k series and 300whp in an s2000 is still crazy unbearable slow so i dont see the point. But if your happy with this kind of power then a k swap would be a great idea but then again i still dont see the point when you can just bolt on a super charger and make 400+hp on a stock f20/f22 and it will be super reliable.

the k swap just does not make sense to me. Now a lsx v8 swap makes lots of sense for that great power band and the cheep and reliability and availability of these engines.
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Luder94 View Post
I have not bought anything as of yet for K swap. I'm still on the fence. I've been taking my LS2000 out a couple of times a week for mundane drive (pick up coffee, go pick up one of my kids from school (take him/her to school), etc.). I still like the LS swap.....just not for what I ended up building the car for. There's part of me that's interested in taking this car to full track mode, in which case, I keep it LS swapped. This particular car is too beautiful (to me) to turn into a track only car and taking into consideration that I won't have too much time to dedicated to open track days/events with two children in prime parenting age, two businesses I'm running, etc. If I was to build another track only s2k, it wouldn't be with this one....but it'd for sure be an LS swap. K swap is nice, but LS swap is cheaper and has much more flexibility.

If I rebuild my LS2000, I'm not sure I'll use Ballade components. Knowing what I know on cost of and time to have my own adaptor and trans mounts made, I may go that route. I'll go with hasport mounts, have a friend make a custom header and water hose elbow, make my own jumper harness, and K-Pro. We'll see though. I've heard of rumors of other companies coming out with their own full Kswap kits. I don't plan to do anything right away, if I do, it'll probably start in late fall or early winter. I'll part out the GM driveline first (if anyone knows of anyone interested in turnkey swap components let me know). WHatevever I sell the LS swap for will fund my Kswap.

Being on S2Ki so long, I posted my mods and pics of my cars here and there. I did do one build thread for my wife's s2k years back. I'll try to put in effort to put together a build thread for this one...we'll see.
Thanks for your input.

After a quick search of the LS1 ($2,500) and T56 ($1,700) plus the LSX swap kit ($1,700), the estimate total would be: $6,000. Does this sound correct to you?

My end goal is to create a road-track ready/streetable car for the weekend and summer time. Number wise: I would start with 400 whp.
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by riceball777 View Post
it really depends on what you want and how much power you want out of the car. To me i love the f20c/f22c because they are very strong engines and car take 600whp+ with no issues what so ever. I have had my stock f20c at over 600whp for many many years. It had 135k miles and been boosted since 80k. The only point of a k swap in my opinion is if you wanted like some where around 300hp with out going forced induction. k motors are far Superior for all motor builds compared to a f series. But in my opinion it cost a lot to build a 300whp k series and 300whp in an s2000 is still crazy unbearable slow so i dont see the point. But if your happy with this kind of power then a k swap would be a great idea but then again i still dont see the point when you can just bolt on a super charger and make 400+hp on a stock f20/f22 and it will be super reliable.

the k swap just does not make sense to me. Now a lsx v8 swap makes lots of sense for that great power band and the cheep and reliability and availability of these engines.
My approach with the k-swap was if the motor blew up after high boost, I would replace it at an affordable price of $1,000 or less.

As opposed to the F20 motors being sold at $5,000.
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