I will keep that in mind. I have been with my woman for 2.5 years so the odds are that within the next 12 months, I will be forking over 10k for some rock.

 

I just wanted to open the floor to other ideas and enter the notion that diamonds are inflated and the very notion of spending three months salary is in fact a marketing ploy that was conjured out of thin air.

There is a movement out there to shed light on this fallacy and there will one day be a bubble burst on the diamond market. I was attempting to educate and I did not lash out the least little bit until I was baited to do so directly. The guy attacked my posts and in essence me, so I felt inclined to retort.

Sorry I am educated about geology. I am sorry I chose to post the way I did. I am sure my information would have been digest more easily if it were not in retaliation to asinine remarks. My post came across elitist and "in your face" because I intended them to. I wrote them to put specific posts in their place.

I would hope and expect that if I posted a question, that someone who was knowledgeable would reply. It was never my intention to get into any kind of pissing contest with anyone.

I even admitted that I bought a ridiculous sized diamond for my wife and that was before I became educated about them. I learned all I could about the 4 C's before I bought but I never knew about the true story of diamonds until years later.

I want the diamond bubble to burst because I think it is ridiculous. Any chance I get to shed light on it is an opportunity I am going to take.

To the OP: please disregard all of my post after the advice to go to Tiffany and Co.. Beyond some very expensive custom jewelers and some very exotic cuts, T&C will offer the most consistently brilliant stones at the most median price while still giving name brand bang for the buck

 

[QUOTE=PrimoGen,Apr 30 2008, 02:28 PM] To the OP: please disregard all of my post after the advice to go to Tiffany and Co.. Beyond some very expensive custom jewelers and some very exotic cuts, T&C will offer the most consistently brilliant stones at the most median price while still giving name brand bang for the buck

 

T&C offers high quality stones that carry a patented cut (several patented cuts actually) and also carry the T&C brand. You will def, pay more for the same size and quality stone at T&C then at more normal jewelers. It is because of their insistence on quality their proprietary cuts and their name that allows that to happen. So yes you are exactly right with the BMW vs. Chevy analogy.

I suggest them because the OP was concerned first and foremost with output (fire, brilliance, dance, etc) without him becoming and expert on carbon and searching the world over for his own high quality diamond, I suggested he go there because he would getting at least some intrinsic value on his investment.

A Tiffany mount will command a certain amount of retained value if it were ever to be resold. it would still tank in comparison to its original price but lets say you had a 10K Kay Jeweler ring and a 10K T&C ring...the T&C ring would retain a higher re-sell value than the "mall" ring.

VVS-1 or the ever-elusive FL stones are what they are. They can be bought for lesser money at certain places but if money is not the most critical factor and your knowledge is not up to the task then you cannot go wrong with T&C (You will get a brilliant and dazzling cut, a guaranteed level of quality and some added clout with the name) or a properly documented, verified and appraised estate piece.

Buying and trading vintage and estate jewelry is a completely different beast and takes a level of commitment and savvy I am just beginning to get my head around.

A ton of people have caught on to "post-consumer diamonds" and are applying their 4C's knowledge to pawn shop, auction and other used jewelry outlets. The buyers purchase used jewelry at extreme discounts, free the stones and have them set into new mounts or keep the vintage nature of the piece. Think about it, what depreciates on a diamond??...Nothing. It

 

I am overly cynical when it comes to buying "status." Nothing on the planet has any value once it is purchased except to the purchaser. Anything you own is only worth, in reality, what someone else is willing to pay for it and only then when the money actually exchanges hands.

If your wife

 

I used to be in the industry and have written many diamond threads on here in the past. I used to both sell, distibute, and inspect diamonds. A diamond is going to be the same no matter where you buy it from. Tiffany's vs Blue nile vs Wherever... PENDING you know what to look for, you know what you want, and you know the market pricing of each in its respective categories.

For example you will not get a stone at Blue nile price in Tiffany's no matter what you do. It just won't happen. It's simple overhead cost and "premium" that gets attached to saying it's a Tiffany diamond. Heck, costco has some of the best retail prices I've seen, without getting it wholesale.

The real key to the "fire" or "brilliance" to make a diamond pop is the proportion of the cut. It is simple geometry. A round diamond opposed to ANY other cut out there will symmetrically produce the most scinitilation (sp?).

Color - Do you really want to look at a yellow diamond? (pending its not a FANCY canary diamond)

Cut - Again with the POP of the diamond

Clarity - Stick with what your budget allows, but anything VS2 or better and MOST women will be happy. Anything beyond VVS2 is just gravy, unless you are getting into the 2-3 carat + range, where it is much easier to detect slight flaws because of surface area.

carat - bigger isn't always better. But to some women, it's all about bragging rights. Think Mugen vs Mugen knockoff..... haha

I'm not going to go into crazy detail with the details of each as there are TONS of online resources for all of it.

I used to always tell my customers that it is always better to go with a slightly smaller size, stay above the vs2 range, stick with G color or better, and get something with an excellent cut grade from GIA. Whatever else your budget allows I'd spend in upgrading the size. Again that was a general guideline for MOST people.

In terms of Grading GIA is by far the most recongnized and trustworthy group out there to certify your diamond. Laser girdle inscription is HIGHLY recommended. Never think twice about whether you are getting YOUR diamond back when getting it serviced or cleaned somewhere. Basically a VIN number forever etched onto the "belt" line of the diamond, ONLY visible with a jewelers loupe at 10x or greater.

Now onto some suggestions.


If you haven't yet, I would step into a Movado Boutique near you and check out their Movado diamond. It has a "modern" cut and design. Excellent proportions and some SERIOUS fire and bling factor to it. Especially when you move it back and forth. Its the way the facets are cut. Check out their website for more info. The style won't be for everyone and their prices are at least 20% more in terms of premium for a NORMAL ideal cut diamond of similar proportions, but man it blings. I'm a bit biased on these patented cuts, but out of many I found this to have the most BLING. I used to work at one... haha... but I actually prefer the more "natural" bling of a more simple ideal cut round.

Hearts on Fire -same concept, different cut and lots of bling to the brilliance. Although this line used to be trendier, but has somewhat fallen in popularity,

Tiffany and may other higher end jewelers all have their patented "cut" but the fact of the matter is that most, if not all follow the same basic principal of the "IDEAL" cut proportion and tweak as they believe acheives the best outcome.

Most diamonds are created similar. It again will simply come down to the proportions of the diamond. Do your research online, go look at loose stones, and find an acceptable range for you and your budget. Do NOT get caught up in the hype that a Tiffany salesmen will pitch to you about how their diamonds are soo much better than everyone else. It's just like buying a car. The knowledgeable ones always get the best deal.

If you have any questions I'm more than happy to answer them via PM.

 

Tiffany and co is WONDERFUL, for rich or lazy people, or for wives who are brand whores.

The level is consistent. They do NOT carry anything below top tier quality. And they have the brand cache to command the premium.

Any moron can walk in with 25k and walk out with a brilliant piece of jewelry.

BUT

For 25% less or more you can probably get something of 95% similar quality and proportions, if you do your own research and buy elsewhere.

Shopping at Tiffany's makes the guess work easy. You never need to second guess their quality. But you are paying a premium for that advantage. Anywhere else and Yes you can get ripped off or pay more for inferior quality, if you don't do your research. But at the same time the educated consumer can purchase something of extremely high quality for much less money.

As consumers the industry is built around the fact that you should only believe the hype of what is marketed to women. The fact is most women will be happy with whatever you get them(to an extent.....) It will also depend on the social status circle you are in or how conscience your wife is to things like that.

Will her friends gush over a 1 carat diamond that sparkles? or does everyone and their momma have a 3 ct that blings to the moon with a flawless cut and color.

I used to tell people it's kind of like buying a plasma tv. Sure at best buy everyone is drooling over the 60" elite series, and the standard 37 inch with only "BASIC" features looks like crap next to it. But get the 37 inch home and everything else doesn't matter any more. With the setting right and a nice hd source, it'll look stellar.

Its YOUR job as the husband to make the decision on what she prefers in terms of taste, style, size, shape, etc... or if you don't want to surprise her make it "together" activity, just pre-arrange showings with jewelers before hand of pieces that YOU picked out before hand, with price tags removed, based on what you thought she might like. Its a lot more meaningful and they'll appreciate it a lot more than just going, I'm going to buy you a diamond, just pick one. In most cases of course.

 

By and large, I've found bluenile to have THE best prices found anywhere on loose stones. The only downside is that you cannot sit down and look at 10 stones in your range, and pick the one that you believe looks best. This is one of the distinct advantages that jewelers have with being able to sell loose stones. Being able to compare side by side is a great way to narrow down your choices. but again, I reference the plasma tv scenario. And as long as you stick with excellent cut ratings, the nuances between the loose stones will be very very minute, especially if looking at similar grades. but this could be a GREAT way to narrow down getting a larger stone with not as good proportions vs a smaller stone with excellent proportions, or a larger stone with h color rating vs a stone with a g color rating that is slightly smaller...

This is quite difficult done online, and is quite rude to do to a jeweler with the INTENT to purchase online. Especially if you are sitting with them for an hour in a diamond room. Their is a premium for everything and their is also an etiquette when doing business with anyone in any type of commission based job. They warrant that premium for the expert(usually or hopefully, but definitely not always) advice.

 

2 pieces of sage advice.

i chose to suggest T&C because of its relative consistent quality and recognition.

I towed their line but I am not a salesman for the company

good call on the Movados I almost forgot them entirely. All the name brand stuff is going to come at a premium. Tacori, Mae Vona, Leo (known more for its cuts than stones) all have uniqueness and character, but at a price

If the OP really digs into the 4C's and goes to an independent shop, he should be able to navigate into a decent stone at a decent price.

 

oh yeah and also DO NOT go to a "mall" store please. Find and independent dealer or family jeweler.

GIA or AGSL are good peace of mind badges to look for when chosing a retailer

Interview the salses staff and the resident gemologist (at good locations these people will often the be the same person) and pick the one that makes you feel the most comfotable.

Loops are great but scoping is better and a TRUE rock shop will put you behind one with no questions asked. they will most likely pride themselves on thier selection and should have a scope in the lobby or close by.