Modern Tipping Practices are WRONG
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Houston
there are many times that I receive piss poor service from waiter, but still feel obligated to tip. I think the system is flawed. I rather have an upfront price, even if higher than what it currently is, instead of being judged by a waiter/waitress by the % of the tip I leave.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Long Island, NY
why does this even warrant a thread? just stop being a cheap ass? i used to be a waiter and know how tough it can be. Assholes in their sl 500s have tipped $0.50 before with great service. Sorry but i can't be a cheap ass like that. I always tip well. anywhere between %15-%40 depending on service. To me it's just giving some extra $$ to someone who needs it way more than me. And a extra $20-$50 for valeting my car, keeping it upfront, and keeping away from getting scratches is worth the $$$ to me.
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Joined: May 2006
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From: Braselton, GA
ChefJ, I wasn't speaking of occurrences when the server is in on the scam. You can, of course, just fire their ass. But what would you have your servers do, chase down the people and demand payment? They would possibly wind up getting beat up, shot, or stabbed. Then you'd have a workers comp claim against you and maybe a lawsuit for putting your employees in a dangerous situation. You must not be from California. The employer is assumed wrong in any grievance or mediation situation, and must overcome the odds to prevail. Don't lecture me how that isn't right- it's just the way it is.
MXT_77 you posted while I was typing. You are correct, that's what I meant.
MXT_77 you posted while I was typing. You are correct, that's what I meant.
That said, I would never put my waitstaff in a position to chase after a person who just committed a theft of services violation. I have 32 cameras spread throughout the restaurant and am very good friends with my local police station. Getting beat up shot or stabbed is quite possible closer to Atlanta, but my places are in more affluent neighborhoods, a little more sophisticated clientele than that in general anyway. There's always a chance for the less desireables to come it but its not frequent.
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in countries where you don't tip, the waiters get at least 35-40k salary. that is wonderful for a server, seeing as most wait jobs are primarily non-degree specific jobs. in countries where the tip is the majority of the income, the salary is only 2.83. so yea, don't tip in America because you went to Spain and liked that system better... great idea. obviously tipping is based on the experience you received. but the standard of the tip depends on the style of restaurant. higher class/fine dining restaurants assume a minimum of 20% tip. middle class restaurants assume 15%+ and 18% gratuity. clearly it is wrong not to tip when the salary of the waiter is only 2.83, which is barely enough to cover taxes. also people might not realize that waiters get taxed on credit card tips. hell amex takes like 4% of your tip. also, i don't understand how you can't realize where the tip comes from. a waiter seats you, gets all your drinks, opens/serves you wine, gets your order, brings you your food, refills drinks, gets more food, deals with your shitty drunken jokes and degrading tones. all that is work, more specifically the work a waiter is graded on. a teacher gets paid to teach people. a construction worker gets paid to build things. a car dealer gets paid to sell cars. a waiter gets paid to serve people. the better your service, the bigger the tip. it's common sense really.
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In my state it is illegal to make a server pay for the food if the diner skips.
I knew someone years ago that had a different method of tipping. He estimated what a great tip was going to be when he sat down at a restaurant. He put the tip in cash on the table and told his server that would be his/her tip if the service was good. If the server ignored him, screwed up, was rude etc, he removed part of the tip at each infraction. What was left was what the server got. I don't think he had to remove much over the years.
I knew someone years ago that had a different method of tipping. He estimated what a great tip was going to be when he sat down at a restaurant. He put the tip in cash on the table and told his server that would be his/her tip if the service was good. If the server ignored him, screwed up, was rude etc, he removed part of the tip at each infraction. What was left was what the server got. I don't think he had to remove much over the years.
This is true here too, but that doesnt mean the restaurant doesnt take it out on the server.
The server can file a claim for a dine and dash, but after a few of these, the server is FIRED. Most servers rather pay out of their pocket than lose their source of income, therefore they pay out the money they were stiffed on.
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From: Santa Monica-SoCal
Originally Posted by secUnd3r' timestamp='1310775203' post='20784971
Most of my opinions on this subject have already been covered quite nicely by tuna, but I will say this-
If you don't tip my wife, I will find you and kill you. Because she will come home and cry about how hard she worked for your big party of rude assholes and you left without even considering a tip.
Now that is just an illogical statement, and far from true, but it conveys the feeling I have for deadbeats who do not compensate the waitstaff that served them. The reason we tip in America is to show our appreciation of the service of the establishment. The same culture that requires direct payment for services provided is the culture that is rude enough to walk out without paying. Those other countries that you speak of for the most part have a culture that isn't half as rude as the majority of American patrons. And by American patrons, I mean you, the person that thinks he is above compensating the waitstaff for services provided.
If you don't tip my wife, I will find you and kill you. Because she will come home and cry about how hard she worked for your big party of rude assholes and you left without even considering a tip.
Now that is just an illogical statement, and far from true, but it conveys the feeling I have for deadbeats who do not compensate the waitstaff that served them. The reason we tip in America is to show our appreciation of the service of the establishment. The same culture that requires direct payment for services provided is the culture that is rude enough to walk out without paying. Those other countries that you speak of for the most part have a culture that isn't half as rude as the majority of American patrons. And by American patrons, I mean you, the person that thinks he is above compensating the waitstaff for services provided.
I really don't expect that much from a waitress/waiter, but what little I do expect from you, I expect you to do your job. Simple as that.
I don't expect you to give me your life story--just take my order, don't screw it up ( and I understand/don't hold you accountable for the kitchen cooking my steak well done when I wanted medium rare), if you see my beer glass empty, don't make me flag you down to refill it. If I'm a regular at your restaurant--welcome me when I come in and request your section. Throw me a free beer/glass of wine--or hell, comp me that appetizer that I just ordered. Whatever that appetizer cost, that's part of your tip.
Just because you are in the service industry and you live on tips-don't assume that you get a tip. You have to earn it.
Hope everyone had a good weekend.
This (above) is pretty much what my position is in case there is any confusion.
Chef, I dont know you personally but you sound like the kind of boss that employees say all kinds of #$%% about behind your back.
and I'm not saying servers should only make their current wage. im saying that businesses should be responsible for the wages of their employees and not to train employees who are already getting paid to EXPECT bonuses for just doing their job.
and how can you say that a server who did a poor job should still get 10%? again, did you actually read what you wrote before posting it?
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Originally Posted by zdave87' timestamp='1310778527' post='20785094
[quote name='secUnd3r' timestamp='1310775203' post='20784971']
Most of my opinions on this subject have already been covered quite nicely by tuna, but I will say this-
If you don't tip my wife, I will find you and kill you. Because she will come home and cry about how hard she worked for your big party of rude assholes and you left without even considering a tip.
Now that is just an illogical statement, and far from true, but it conveys the feeling I have for deadbeats who do not compensate the waitstaff that served them. The reason we tip in America is to show our appreciation of the service of the establishment. The same culture that requires direct payment for services provided is the culture that is rude enough to walk out without paying. Those other countries that you speak of for the most part have a culture that isn't half as rude as the majority of American patrons. And by American patrons, I mean you, the person that thinks he is above compensating the waitstaff for services provided.
Most of my opinions on this subject have already been covered quite nicely by tuna, but I will say this-
If you don't tip my wife, I will find you and kill you. Because she will come home and cry about how hard she worked for your big party of rude assholes and you left without even considering a tip.
Now that is just an illogical statement, and far from true, but it conveys the feeling I have for deadbeats who do not compensate the waitstaff that served them. The reason we tip in America is to show our appreciation of the service of the establishment. The same culture that requires direct payment for services provided is the culture that is rude enough to walk out without paying. Those other countries that you speak of for the most part have a culture that isn't half as rude as the majority of American patrons. And by American patrons, I mean you, the person that thinks he is above compensating the waitstaff for services provided.
I really don't expect that much from a waitress/waiter, but what little I do expect from you, I expect you to do your job. Simple as that.
I don't expect you to give me your life story--just take my order, don't screw it up ( and I understand/don't hold you accountable for the kitchen cooking my steak well done when I wanted medium rare), if you see my beer glass empty, don't make me flag you down to refill it. If I'm a regular at your restaurant--welcome me when I come in and request your section. Throw me a free beer/glass of wine--or hell, comp me that appetizer that I just ordered. Whatever that appetizer cost, that's part of your tip.
Just because you are in the service industry and you live on tips-don't assume that you get a tip. You have to earn it.
Hope everyone had a good weekend.
This (above) is pretty much what my position is in case there is any confusion.
Chef, I dont know you personally but you sound like the kind of boss that employees say all kinds of #$%% about behind your back.
and I'm not saying servers should only make their current wage. im saying that businesses should be responsible for the wages of their employees and not to train employees who are already getting paid to EXPECT bonuses for just doing their job.
and how can you say that a server who did a poor job should still get 10%? again, did you actually read what you wrote before posting it?
[/quote]
If you define "poor job" as simply missing filling your drink or taking a long time with your order, then tipping below 10% makes you a cheap asshole. If a server dumps a plate in your lap or something, sure, tip below 10%.
I get that you don't like the current system. Understand, however, that by tipping poorly you're taking it out on people who have absolutely no control over it. You're not going to change how restaurants do business, nor are you going to change the laws that govern tipping in this country. Get over yourself and tip appropriately. This is our country, this is our culture, and if you live here you get to deal with it. That, or as I and others have already said, simply don't go out to eat.
Why are you even continuing this conversation? Everything relevant has already been said multiple times.
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Not tipping is a breach of American etiquette. But getting lousy service from a waiter is also a breach of etiquette in my book. I have no problem breaching etiquette if I get lousy service.
I always tip 20% even for mediocre service, but if service is bad it's 0%. When a restaurant automatically includes a tip in the bill the service better be exceptional or the waiter will get a complaint.
I always tip 20% even for mediocre service, but if service is bad it's 0%. When a restaurant automatically includes a tip in the bill the service better be exceptional or the waiter will get a complaint.
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From: FAR BEYOND THE WHEEL...
