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Qwerty Query: Why Do We Still Type This Way?

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Old May 25, 2006 | 04:59 PM
  #21  
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[COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue]
Originally Posted by exceltoexcel
There is no improvement in speed using this technique unless your at the upper levels of typing.
Who's to say that a person typing 100 wpm won't bump to 120 wpm? I think it is quite logical that a better key design would increase most individuals word count. Of course not the vast majority wouldn't be the "super-typers", however, I see no reason why there wouldn't be some improvement in the majority of typers.

However, the large picture would indicate this wouldn't be the most cost-effective method for reducing a companies costs. Perhaps companies should find a way to stop internet browsing (how many times have you viewed s2ki at work not during your hour of lunch) or the several other work-related distractions that would not require expensive training.

The cost to train employees to type on a newly designed keyboard and the time associated with getting them to the word count level prior to the implementation could never justify the benefit of typing 28% faster.

Besides, until such a design is being implemented to younger age groups a company would be required to train ALL employees. It would become ridiculously expensive.

If this was such a big issue maybe we would all learn stenography .

I know a company would rather spend the additional money towards practical training or additional education; something that will actually generate real revenue... not cut down on overhead.

Chris
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Old May 25, 2006 | 05:11 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Austblue,May 25 2006, 05:10 PM
If its black and white then show me the figures that dispute this ^^^

How can you say "the tool hasn't been changed it only moves the keys" That's like saying the sky isn't blue its sky blue!



Yes there is. When you attempt to drive your car as fast as possible there are two things that limit you. The first is your ability and the second is the cars. Same goes for typing, first limitation is your typing skill second limitation demonstrated here is the layout of the keys.

As I already stated, if you're not relying on your typing speed then its not an issue. I thought I was pretty clear about that when I used my secretary as an example but according to you're closing line you didn't let that sink in to your melon either.

That's my opinion. If you don't like it you can wipe your ass with it for all I care but I'm done

Cheers.
I got an idea.... Show me the figures that backs up any claims of typing faster with the Dvorak layout.

And I think Excel's point about the tool not changing was that it is foolish to thnk that changing the layout of the keys alone is going to make any big positive difference in typing speed. All that's going to happen is you are going to type slower, not faster. Sure, you could spend a ton of time learning to type faster on the Dvorak layout, OR you could invest that time in learning to type faster on your querty keyboard. Anyone who thinks a Dvorak layout is going to guarantee some sort of jump in typing speed is an idiot. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Go spend your money on a new keyboard, install the software, and let us know how fast your typing improved.

You might read this article, and think about claims of superiority that haven't borne fruit in 70+ years:
http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html
and this:
http://www.chicagologic.com/QWERTY%20rumor/
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Old May 26, 2006 | 04:41 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Austblue,May 25 2006, 07:10 PM
If its black and white then show me the figures that dispute this ^^^

How can you say "the tool hasn't been changed it only moves the keys" That's like saying the sky isn't blue its sky blue!



Yes there is. When you attempt to drive your car as fast as possible there are two things that limit you. The first is your ability and the second is the cars. Same goes for typing, first limitation is your typing skill second limitation demonstrated here is the layout of the keys.

As I already stated, if you're not relying on your typing speed then its not an issue. I thought I was pretty clear about that when I used my secretary as an example but according to you're closing line you didn't let that sink in to your melon either.

That's my opinion. If you don't like it you can wipe your ass with it for all I care but I'm done

Cheers.
OMG the tool is the exact same tool. Use a ergonomic keyboard, that is a change to the tool.

Your still goping to get carpel tunnel syndrome if you use a typical keyboard a lot because guess what where you move your fingures isn't what causes the problem but repetative motion. Since your going to be "typing faster" which is bullshit you're actually going to be more likely to get CTS.


Where has the second limitation been demonstrated? Wheres your proof? It's bullshit You have no proof that this will work only the theory that it works. Here's the problem you nor could anyone else prove that its faster at all. Why? Simple you introduce this new system to someone that types 100 wpm and they then type 30wpm trying to learn this stupid crap but they keep practicing for a month to get better and they then type 110 wpm. If they spent the same amount of time honeing their QWERTY skills they would be typing 120 wpm but how do you prove that? Have them work equally at both until one "takes over the other" what happens if this new system never takes over?

Please this isn't proven for crap. I'll argue that you strike most of the keys outside the home row quicker that you do those on the home row. specifically the T E U I O keys.

Your secretarys speed isn't going to imporve one bit by changing to this system and you can't seem to let that sink into your pea.

Your opinion isn't worthy of my ass

Cheers,
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Old May 26, 2006 | 04:47 AM
  #24  
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From: limerick
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The Dvorak keyboard sounds very good. However, a keyboard need to do more than just "sound" good, and unfortunately, Dvorak has failed to prove itself superior to QWERTY. It appears that many of the studies used to test the effectiveness of Dvorak were flawed. Many were conducted by the good professor himself, creating a conflict of interest question, since he had a financial interest in the venture. A U.S. General Services Administration study of 1953 appears to have been more objective. It found that it really didn't matter what keyboard you used. Good typists type fast, bad typists don't.
.
It's not surprising, then, that Dvorak has failed to take hold. No one wants to take the time and trouble to learn a new keyboard, especially if it isn't convincingly superior to the old. A few computer programs and special-order daisy wheels are available to transform modern typewriters or word processors to the Dvorak keyboard, but the demand for these products is small. After all, expert typists can can do nearly 100 words a minute with QWERTY . Word processors increase that speed significantly. The gains that Dvorak claims to offer aren't really needed.
[QUOTE] This design change actually had the bonus effect of speeding up typing by letting the user alternate hands more often - think drum roll.

[SIZE=10][B] A 1953 U.S. General Services Administration study of the QWERTY keyboard and it's only serious challenger, the DVORAK keyboard, found no appreciable typing speed difference between the two keyboards.
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Old May 26, 2006 | 04:50 AM
  #25  
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From: limerick
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Originally Posted by no_really,May 25 2006, 09:11 PM
I got an idea.... Show me the figures that backs up any claims of typing faster with the Dvorak layout.

And I think Excel's point about the tool not changine was that it is foolish to thnk that changing the layout of the keys alone is going to make any big positive difference in typing speed. All that's going to happen is you are going to type slower, not faster. Sure, you could spend a ton of time learning to type faster on the Dvorak layout, OR you could invest that time in learning to type faster on your querty keyboard. Anyone who thinks a Dvorak layout is going to guarantee some sort of jump in typing speed is an idiot. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Go spend your money on a new keyboard, install the software, and let us know how fast your typing improved.

You might read this article, and think about claims of superiority that haven't borne fruit in 70+ years:
http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html
and this:
http://www.chicagologic.com/QWERTY%20rumor/
LOOK! Someone with brain cells and common sense on this board!


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Old May 26, 2006 | 05:04 AM
  #26  
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From: limerick
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This suspicion was later reinforced when we read about a 1953 study for the Australian Post Office. In the early phases of the Australian study, the experiments showed no advantages for Dvorak. But then adjustments were made in the test procedure to "remove psychological impediments to superior performance." We can only guess how the proponents of the Dvorak keyboard, who conducted the experiments, might have removed those nasty impediments.
http://reason.com/9606/Fe.QWERTY.shtml

If you read this article it exposes the reasons why DVORAK DOESN'T or WON'T GIVE ANY GAINS AT ALL!.

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Old May 26, 2006 | 05:05 AM
  #27  
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We discovered that the Navy's top expert in the analysis of time and motion studies during World War II was none other than...drum roll please...Lieut. Com. August Dvorak. Earle Strong, a professor at Pennsylvania State University and a one-time chairman of the Office Machine Section of the American Standards Association, reports that the 1944 Navy experiment was conducted by Dvorak himself. Strong was heavily involved with these issues. He was the author of a key test of the typewriter keyboard commissioned by the General Services Administration......

Evidence Against Dvorak

Naturally, these false results were going to get found out. As many businesses and government agencies contemplated changing keyboards in the mid 1950s, the General Services Administration commissioned Strong's study to confirm the earlier results. This study provides the most compelling evidence against the Dvorak keyboard. It was a carefully controlled experiment designed to examine the costs and benefits of switching to Dvorak. It unreservedly concluded that retraining typists on Dvorak was inferior to retraining on QWERTY.

In the first phase of the experiment, 10 government typists were retrained on the Dvorak keyboard. It took well over 25 days of four-hour-a-day training for these typists to catch up to their old QWERTY speeds. (Compare this to the Navy study's results.) When the typists had finally caught up to their old speeds, the second phase of the experiment began. The newly trained Dvorak typists continued training and a group of 10 QWERTY typists (matched in skill to the Dvorak typists) began a parallel program to improve their skills. In this second phase the Dvorak typists progressed less quickly with further Dvorak training than did QWERTY typists training on QWERTY keyboards. Thus Strong concluded that Dvorak training would never be able to amortize its costs. He recommended instead that the government provide further training in the QWERTY keyboard for QWERTY typists.
.....
Lies it's a big consipracy!

It was the ORBS that set it up

IS THAT ENOUGH PROOF FOR YA, I'M GLAD YOU'RE DONE WITH THIS THREAD CAUSE YOU BEEN POWN3D

Common sense is all that is needed to see the tool didn't change other and its a different color.

Thank you for playing Hey you win some you lose some. No hard feelings
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Old May 26, 2006 | 05:19 AM
  #28  
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From: limerick
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[QUOTE=remedyzrider,May 25 2006, 08:59 PM] [COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue][COLOR=blue][QUOTE]

Who's to say that a person typing 100 wpm won't bump to 120 wpm?
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