World Trade Center Tower 1
World Trade Center Tower 2
Pentagon
Egypt Air 800
La Belle Discotheque
the nursery at Ma'alot
Pan Am 103
Achille Lauro
US Embassy in Kenya
US Embassy in Tanzania
Khobar Towers
Khobar Shopping Center
US Marine Barracks in Lebanon
USS Cole
bombing of the Bombay Stock Exchange and other targets in Bombay
US hostage beheaded by Moslem rebels in Philippines
Massacre of US troops in Somalia where US was protecting delivery of food aid to fight famine.
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Egypt Air flight 800 was not brought down by its pilots, the media here said it was. Just like the media said that the flight which crashed in Pennsylvania was brought down as a result of a struggle while in fact it was shot down.

The incident(s) (againts Israelis) which you listed that involve Palestenians............I don't know if you just don't know, or you're ignoring the fact that after WWII, Palestine which was one of the countries under UK control at the time, was hand given by the UK to the Israelis around 1947 or so (Israel was declared a state in 48). Israel was them supplied with everything that it needed.

So while there were incidents were Israelis were killed by Palestinians in Palestine, there were (and still) many many more Palestinians killed by the Israelis ranging from infants, to men and women of all ages. Most recent massacre was back in Feb or March 96 when Israel raided and bombed a few villages in norher Palestine and contiued to bomb a U.N. camp in southern Lebanon where civilians were hiding. There are too many incidents where an Israeli soldier or a settler has opened fire at Palestinians in a Mosque and other placed killing many.......of course some of those Israelis were "mentally ill" according to Israel.........etc.......like I said, the list is too long to list. Keep in mind that is it the Israelis that are "armed" as oppose to the Palestinians who are fighting for their home land, so they say at least. Is either side's killings justified?? well each side has their reasons, I'll leave it at that.

Why didn't you hear of the incidents againts Palestinians, I don't know, the media here didn't give any attention; the media's interest here seems to always portray the Israelis as the victims. Don't get me wrong, while some are, most are not.

While you listed some incidents in India, you left out many similar incidents against Muslims by the Indians, Mosques getting burned etc etc. Is there justification?? Don't know.

I don't know why it seems like eveyone is equating Muslim extremist to Muslims, two completely different things.

While your list in "not an exhaustive" one, and while I strongly condemn every terrorist act that was committed by those extremist, (NOTHING JUSTIFIES THE KILLING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE), you seem to want to associate terror and madness with Islam as a religion. The world has seen terror committed by almost every race and religion for various reasons:

Indian Americans were killed by folks who migrated here a long time ago. A very large number of civilians were killed in Japan when the US dropped two nuc bombs and still till today the effects show (yeah I know the world was at war then, but I don't know if that makes it just). Many innocent children died in Oklahoma city when a crazy white (possibly christian) bombed the federal building. Some more folks died when David Coresh claimed he was Jesus or something and killed himself and everyone else who was with him. Lady in Texas drowned 5 children in the bathtub because she was depressed, another lady in NC strapped two children in the car seat and drowned the car. There were different incidents of kids walking into schools with guns and killing classmates and teachers. I don't know how really killed JFK, CIA?? There are more incidents of course, this is not exhaustive. Is there a problem? yes there is, terror and ignorance is everyones enemy.

Try watching another channel besides CNN, CBS or NBC.......

NO NO NO, I am not putting down the US or Christianity or white folks for the matter, all I'm saying is that terror and crazy killings are not and should not be associated with a single race or religion.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRM
[B]Easy fellows, remember Yellow asked, to not make this thread political.

 

I'm sorry Yellow S2000, the intent of my post was not political even though its content was; all I wanted to illustrate that terror is not the monopoly of one race or religion. Again I apologize for the political content.

I'm off this thread.

 

Hi Shamma

I think your statement of facts is somewhat inaccurate.

Palestine was part of the Ottoman empire and became a trusteeship of Great Britain after World War I. Jewish people have lived in Palestine, their homeland, for about 3,500 years. In 1948, the United Nations voted to partition Palestine, into a Jewish state and an Arab state. The result of this partition was the formation of the state of Israel and Jordan.

The Arab nations refused to acknowledge that Jews had any right to a state and attacked Israel in 1948 (Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia) and lost. Since then there has been an unremitting war, sometimes one of terror, sometimes conventional the goal of which has been the extirpation of the Israeli state. After the last war, started when the Arab states attacked Israel, Israel prevailed and occupied certain territories previously occupied by Syria (Golan Heights), Jordan (the West Bank), Egypt (Gaza and the Sinai.)

Israel made peace with Egypt (Sadat) and gave back the Sinai as part of the settlement. Egypt did not want Gaza. Jordan did not want the West Bank. Israel has attempted to negotiate a peace with the Palestinians with the understanding that at the end of the process the Palestinians will have a state consisting of Gaza and much of the West Bank. Every time there is a sticking point, the Palestinians make their point with terror attacks. Syria refuses to negotiate peace until Israel returns the Golan Heights.

I don't think there's any doubt about what would have happened if Israel had lost any of these wars and been occupied by Arab forces. There would be no negotiations of peace. The Israelis would have been exterminated.

Bin Laden makes clear the position held by many - Israel must be eliminated and the land, all of it, given to the Palestinians. Public opinion in that part of the world has consistently applauded suicide bombings, bombings of shopping centers, pizza parlors, busses, etc. The US has been seen as a supporter of Israel and that has earned us hatred. The US is also seen as a supporter of the monarcy of Saudi Arabia, which has also earned us much hatred. Sadat was seen as a traitor for making peace with Israel, he was hated and assasinated in a terror attack.

Under it all is a sense of anger at the primacy of Western culture, science, technology, commerce and an inability to reconcile this fact with religiously based expectations. The widely circulated explanation for this "turning of the world upside down" is that Israel was able to defeat the Arab armies of many countries because it is an instrument of Satan. Western primacy represented by the US is explained in the same way, we are the "Big Satan."

The attacks on the US which resulted in the murder of thousands of innocent people has resulted in US retaliation. Is there any doubt that there are further atrocities in store for us. These further atrocities will be characterized as "retaliation" against US action. Israel has faced the same kind of endless torment. Terror attacks followed by retaliation, the ignoring of the instigating incidents and characterization of Israel as conducting a terror campaign against a policy of terror.

We will also face the same kind of lies - an example seen in the widespread press reports in the middle east that it was the US which was behind these attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

I don't know what the answer is, but I think the problem is pretty clear.

2x6

 

Egypt Air flight 800 was not brought down by its pilots, the media here said it was. Just like the media said that the flight which crashed in Pennsylvania was brought down as a result of a struggle while in fact it was shot down.

The proof of both these statements would be?

 

Shamma wrote:

"Egypt Air flight 800 was not brought down by its pilots, the media here said it was. Just like the media said that the flight which crashed in Pennsylvania was brought down as a result of a struggle while in fact it was shot down."

TrojanHorse wrote

"The proof of both these statements would be?"

The FAA investigation and conclusions regarding the Egyptair crash were based on the cockpit voice recordings of cockpit discussions. Egypt and the Arab press took great offense at the FAA conclusion, it was considered insulting. Truth asked to take a back seat to pride and reputation.

The Arab media has repeatedly announced that flight 93 was not brought down by a heroic effort of the passengers but rather shot down by US military aircraft. Clearly, the idea of heroism by Americans is unpalatable to some. The evidence? Cell phone conversations between passengers and their loved ones immediately before they took on the terrorists.

Evidence is not the issue nor is it sufficient to counter misstatements of fact offered in support of a twisted world view. The "truth" offered by Arab press is a "meta truth" a larger truth which transcends the existence of overwhelming contrary facts. To these people the facts are not important, their conclusions are what is important and they must support the twin goals of relieving the terrorists of blame for the crash of Flight 93 while gutting the story of its heroic component, that is the heroism of the American passengers.

Welcome to the world of lies. If you want an emetic dose, just follow the middle eastern press reports of these and related events.

 

One more reply that says anything about politics this thread will be locked... JRM had tried he best to warn you that he will delete this thread if it turn into a political thread.

Last Warning NO POLITICS

 

Get real. Your country is at war.

 

Last warning! Eather keep the thread within the scope of what is happening now or I will delete the thread. I've asked once before to curtail the political dicussion. Yellow has also made comment to the fact. Now we can be adult about this and call a truce to the finger pointing and politics or it's going.to be deleted and I doubt that another will be allowed.

I made the original comment to inform everyone of the situation now in the present. Is it possible we can just leave this thread as source of news instead of debate. I don't have to say who or why you know so please let it drop.

To keep us on track. The US is current sending bomber strikes from both Germany and bases in undisclosed areas in Russia. B-52 and B-1. I guess we are finally going to use the B-1s after all this time. They are presently on their third wave of attacks against strategic locations as power generating plants, airports and key military sites. We have also dropped several thousands of pounds of high energy rations for Afgani refugees in isolated areas. Both inside Afganistian and just acrossed the border in Pakastian. I certainly feel for these refugees as they have no where to flee. They're just beginning their winter without food stores or crops to harvest. I hope that we keep up the food shipments for as long as it takes.

 

LOL. You're not wrong!