anyone who harbors any false ideals on what a unified Taiwan / China would be just has to look at what's happening right now in Hong Kong.

China promised 50 years of autonomy. It hasn't even been 10 and they have stripped many key civil liberties from the HK people.

It's very sad in the sense that HK was a thriving democracy that is being slowly dismantled by China, and there is little HK can do about it.

China only knows one way....their own.

 

i dont think China has stripped HK's freedom.
the UK government stairred a lot of shit before they left, leaving them for China to fix...

 

DKHL it is relvant in terms of technology. China can win wars by massing troops, tanks, Mig fighters, etc. America and other nations wins wars by technology. Sometimes technology isn't enough. Get my point?

 

Ummm... why is it that everyone thinks that HK was "Free" before? It was negotiated as part of a deal between UK and China. And guess what it was for? Cause UK among a slew of other countries (including the US) brought tons of opium to China in an attempt to weaken the Chinese and open the doors to trade and occupation. In order to fend them off after putting up a noble fight (Opium wars), China GAVE the UK Hong Kong via the Treaty of Nanking. You won't find too much of this in US history books- we pretty much blame it on the Brits. Talk about shameful history.

adelaide: What civil liberties are you refering to in particular?
Have you been to HK? Have you been to China? I assure you, you won't be locked up, nor will you be imprisoned and forced to perform inhumane lurid homosexual acts...oh no wait, thats a US prison.

Yes China only knows one way. And yes it is their own. Just like how America likes it- we live in a democracy, they live in a communist society. So what?!

Mingster: Sorry you feel this way. I can say the same for mexicans, blacks, and redneck white people as well. Dirty, smokers, shitty dressers... and I can say its worse for some taiwanese I've met. They have lots of money, but are rude, ignorant, and haughty people. I hope you realize that it has nothing to do with the origins of a person, but rather the economic background. I am sure the majority of Chinese people are poor. They cannot afford proper clothing. They may have grown up in Canton, and worked their whole lives and saved enough money to come to America. They are probrably working 15 hours/day in some cramped resturant delivering food- and thats why they smell.

I know, because my parents went through the same shit. They came to this country with the American dream. They've been stepped on by racists, narrow-minded people, and others who felt they weren't "American" enough. I appreciate what they've gone through, and today even though they are $$$$$, they still do not look down on seemingly poorer people.

Ive dated plenty of Taiwanese/jap/hk girls. The ones here are fine. I have no quams about japanese people. I merely brought up the atrocities point in the course of my anectdote about that girl I once knew.

Bottom line is that hate doesn't really get us anywhere. When I first came to America, I got my ass beat by ignorant white children. Then, it was uppity Taiwanese neighbors making us feel poor and uncultured (even when my parents had a MD and PhD). Its just pure ignorance. Get over it people.

 

someone lock this. its going way off topic now

 

This is a interesting topic. A lot of people talked about China does not have the ability to attack U.S. While, they don't need to and they don't plan to. If they are only plan on attacking Taiwan. U.S. military would be the one that will have to make its trip accross the sea. And people, don't compare China army vs. Iraq's amry. Just because U.S. wins vs. afghanstan and Iraq. There's no comparions in this situation. The difference here will be millions of Chinese army fighting for what they believe its their land. And looking at a invasion by U.S. army. Vs. Iraq's army not willing to fight for a dictator that's been ruining their lives.

If China is ever invaded by U.S. There will be a lot of people join this war, North Korea, Soviet Union. I'm sure Soviet union will not like a U.S. Military base right next to their border. And that just add to the list of Nuclear powerhouses that's involved. And the Pakistan and India situation is just a ticking bomb. With U.S. supplied India with Nuclear equipment and China turn around and returned the favor to Pakistan. Just more crazy people sitting their fingers on the trigger.

So now, lets say Taiwanses president want to win a popularity contest. Declare democracy. How fast do you think China could invade Taiwan? Vs. How fast would U.S. pull out its 140,000 men that are stationed in Iraq? So what would be the slogan for Bush administration use to win American's support? We went to war in Iraq not because of their oil or my personal hate on Saddam. Was to free the Iraq's people. Now we will go free Taiwanese people and fight the biggest army in the world. Risking chances of nuclear strike back.

Imagine a war with a nuclear capable nation. We were already at orange alert. Scared of a few crazy people from Bin Laden's camp that will come over here with a few bombs. Now we are looking at an attack by a whole nation. With nuclear and chemical capability. Do you think the public and half of the senate would support that? Sending troops to Taiwan? Risking an all out war with North Korea? And invade China?

I was born in China and my grand parents and my father all fought against the Japanese and the Nationalists. They have scars to show til this day. And to every chinese person that was raised in China. From when you were a little kid. They teach you, Taiwan is a part of China. We will never let it go. As for right now, China will let it go because they know how important it is for U.S. and China to get along in order for Economic growth. But don't think for one sec. they would back down from claiming what they believe is their own land.

I have many Taiwanese friends and I would never wish the two country to go to war. My business partner for Evolution is a true Taiwanese. Born and raised there. He truly believe that Taiwan is a separate country in its own. And we debate about it all the time. I have been to my Taiwanese friends house where my friend were scared to tell their parents I'm from Mainland. But to me, the Unity will have to come sooner or later. If there is a war that will start. I understand perfectly which side of the land I'm living on. But I will never under estimate the strength of the Chinese army.

Wow, my first political post.

 

soviet union was dead about 14 years ago.
but if they did step in im sure other nation would surely love to get back at old russia n join taiwan too.


better off if china just attack taiwan n the u.s help with resources and weapon arsenal rather than man power.

 

I meant to say russia.

They already do. Everyday. And they helped Afghanistan with weapons to fight Soviet, and Iraq with weapons to fight Iran.

 

who will ship to taiwan if they go to war with China... or what can taiwan ship out...??


China is do HK more good than harm. Mainlanders are buying, investing in HK - we even accept RMB now in grocery stores and some big electronic stores.

 

wow, nice topic. No need to close this thread as there are some intelligent posts here.

Sen, I go back to Asia (HK, China, Taiwan, Japan) about 8 times a year. So I think my perspective is pretty up to date.

Update yourself on what civil liberties have been taken away. There has been a lot of 'articles' (HK Laws) pushed through in the past year that have drastically changed things such as public assembly, government appointments, police powers, free speech, etc.

I am not saying you're going to get locked up tomorrow, but you have to understand where this is going and how precisely some of those liberties (which are now gone) dictated where HK is today.

Was HK truly free before? Who is? But when you compare it to China or even Taiwan, you have to concur that the British 'occupation' was definitely to it's benefit in many, many ways.

Yes, China is definitely helping HK for now, and I believe HK will survive, but China is aggressively pushing Shanghai as it's successor. It's only a matter of time.

No one is going to attack anyone, and no one is going to declare independance at the moment. I think this is going to be decided on an economic level and time heals a lot of wounds. Nevermind cross strait investment, marriage, kids, etc., etc.