^yeah. that plane that hit the pentagon was launch from u.s soil

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sen
No, the US will not win a war against China- because there would be no US or China left.

 

Taiwan should do what it wants to do.

It should be respected for having a democratic system (no matter the controversy with the recent elections - what, are you going to make fun of the US democratic system because of the hanging chad?) and let the people decide.

I love Taiwan myself, and believe it is distinctly different than China.

I think the unique culture of Taiwan would be inevitably lost or changed if unified with China. It's simply a matter of numbers (Billion vs. 28 million).

That being said, China is the future, and US dominance will wane. It's inevitable and if you don't believe that, then the sun never set on the British Empire either. Or the Turkish, or the Roman, etc, etc.

The key for the US is to figure out it's place in the new economy, and be protectionist against outsourcing and the like.

 

Sen the who cares part is directed towards yella who always brings up his "my dad is a general" so I must be better than any other member. The who cares comment has nothing to do with the taiwain china

With all the commitments the U.S. has and I didn't even think about North Korea it would be a crazy war. Many military strategists though in the past though have reffered to China as a "paper tiger". Still it would not be pretty to see who the last person standing is.

I still think if China were to invade Taiwain the U.S. would help out. It would be a hostile military act the U.S. wouldnt let it go by.China would have to use a Navy and transport ships to get its vast military machine to Taiwain. Thats where our dominant navy steps in with anti ship missles, carriers, f-18s etc and its over in that scenario. One anti ship missle can mess a ship up. This is speaking if the war was fought in conventional terms not nuclear.

 

I think the point was made to say that if a plane can crash into the pentagon, or the WTC, I think North Korea can somehow manage to get a nuke into the US. the days of worrying about Nukes falling on your head is over. It is more of a worry that someone blows up one of our reactors.

Why smuggle a nuke over, when you have hundreds of targets to blow up.

 

As it currently stands, China does not have the mobile transport capabilities (airlift or ocean) to launch a full on assault on Taiwan. But why would it need to? Taiwan is such an import extensive country for raw materials, all China needs to do is a blockade and in a few months it'll be all over.

 

Exactly, they don't have a substantial Navy. To be sucessful in a war you must also have excelent logistical support such as food, ammo etc brought to you by cargo planes, helos, supply shipts. A modern soldier can only fight for so long wiht out supplies.

Heres an interesting conversation I had with a Korean war veteran though......

Went to dinner one night with some professors and some fellow students to celebrate the ending of a class. Well one old guy whihc was the prof friends was an ex army guy who served in Korea in 1951? or sometime in the early 50s. Well he had some amazing stories to tell.
We had actually kicked the North Korean army out of the korean continent pushing them against the borders of China. The Chinese in response sent out hundreds of thousands to millions of men in human wave attacks against the few thousand troops of the American army in the front....

Our army stood these Chinese off up to a point. He told me it got so bad that bodies of the enemy were being used as sandbags. They would stack them up on each other and use those for protection. The most devestating weapon the Chinese army feared though was a combination of 4 .50 calibers (12.72mm?) M1 machine guns
mounted on a turret facing the enemy. (A .50 calibre shot would knock you arm off, these guns are used against planes and vehicles). Imagine the effect on human waves coming at ya..He told me they mowed thousands upon thousands of chinese army troops but they kept coming night after night. Some historians even speculate that 1 or more million chinese troops were lost in those human wave assualts.

That war was pretty much our only conflict with Chinese troops. Eventually the two forces North Koreans, Chinese and U.S. stalemated and the DMZ was created.

Again due to Economics I don't belive China can afford an attack but who knowsmaybe Taiwan is an important symbol to them they can not afford to give up?

 

silverknight brought up an interesting point regarding the korean war. not many people knew this, but a good portion of those hundreds of thousands of chinese troops who died in korea were former KMT troops who surrendered to the PLA after 1949. Chairman Mao, in all his wisdom , sent these people out with poor equipment and not much in terms of support, and his plan succeeded: he cleaned out the army of people who weren't 100% loyal to him, he used the enemy's bullets to kill his foes, and the propaganda "victories" solidified his "leadership".

i remember some politburo member or another remarked: we chinese dont' have much, but we have lots of bodies.

 

ouch thats pretty ed up...

 

I misunderstood about the 'don't care' comment Silver, my bad

The Korean war was such BS. So many people died, and for no real purpose. US was supposed to stop at the 38th- this was decided by the UN. Big bad MacArthur pushed onward. So China had to enter the picture and push the US back to the 38th. MacArthur was eventually fired for being the cowboy that he was.

The death count was near 1 million for the chinese, the US lost 140,000. The key thing here though, is that manpower is China's competitive advantage. Sure, its sad, but thats how they pushed MacArthur back. Also, the Chinese, and N. Korea were fighting about 20 countries with only Russia as their ally. What China lacks in technology, it makes up in bodies- that is a form of strategy.

If China were to mobilize, it would be seriously, a 2 hour boat ride to the shore of Taiwan. An act of aggression, yes- but it is also an end to decades of unending civil war. Millions of Chinese were oppressed by the Nationalists, and millions more died when they opened their arms to Japan. The US supported Nationalists eventually were soundly defeated when Mao kicked their ass and sent them packing to Taiwan.

All they would need would be to utilize their heavy artillary (very heavy artillary which was put in place for the sole purpose of an eventual invasion of Taiwan) as cover fire and basically construct some sort of quasi-bridge with what transports they have, and voilla, they are in Taiwan.

It would be no question as to *if* China can take Taiwan, regardless of US interference. The real test is whether they can hold on to it afterwards. The way things stand now in terms of international foreign affairs, US isn't the most popular kid in town. The world will probrably be split and WW3 ensues. So its pretty much a toss-up.

But as far as if US and China went 1 on 1? I'd say that US would probrably kill more Chinese, and win battles due to military prowess and technology. However, the US has political and humanistic reservations, whereas China will just charge onward. Nuclear weapons aside of course... I don't think either country has what it takes to conquer eachother. The amount of bloodthrist needed for such an endevour ended with Hitler and Nazi Germany.


blah blah blah- man i must be bored Whatcha think, Silver?