"Under God," Pledging is Out - Your .02!
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From: Richardson
i don't see how this is separating anyone from anyone. I've heard a lot of talk on other boards about how this it taking away from the patriotism of our country, blah, blah, blah. I don't think there is a kid in the US that cares one bit about it. only th parents that want to shove words in thier mouths. I never once felt by saying "under god" that i was more "patriotic."
As an Atheist, i now i am in the minority...almost everywhere(thank you, infidels.org). Children are not REQUIRED to say the pledge, but it is highly looked down upon. When i was in 5th grade(i remember, it was only 8 years ago) i refused to say "under god" in my pledge. I had a fundie teacher who would send me out into the hall everyday b/c i wouldn't say it in it's entirety. now THAT is illegal, but at that age, i didn't know that.
I'm trying my hardest not to take this into a religous debate. I am not suprised at all at how people reacted to this. not one tiny bit. i'm not suprised that he got death threats from "loving christians" and "americans." I was sorta disturbed, but not suprised. I am not suprised at some of the remarks and responces that some theist on here have made. i am also not too suprised when theists said that it was a good idea to back back to how it was pre-mccarthyism.
I don't see how some peoples arguments could be, "it's just easier to leave it in." if you use that same train of thought, it would have also been easier for King to just leave the civil rights laws as they were(non-existant that is). That's what brings on change to something that is wrong, people standing up and not just saying, "it'd be easier to just let it go by and not make a big stink about it."
Being and 18 year-old AND an Atheist, most people don't give two shits about what i think. I've learned to accept this living in the bible-belt. The supreme court will most likely never take anything religious that is already there out. and with our supreme jack-ass, i mean leader, Bush, and his comments like the ones he made about having only christian judges in office, there will probably be more religion backed by the gov't.
I think that anything religoius should not be involed in anything gov't. assuming a poly-theistic religion will never be widely recognized again, i say this. Once the gov't is run by a religion, it become a totalitarian society. a society led by god, with soldiers willing to do stupid shit to uphold his "glory." With millions of sheep that will do whatever he says, or whatever his "officers" say. Oh wait, that is our government.
peace,
-Chris
mxyzptlk@attbi.com
As an Atheist, i now i am in the minority...almost everywhere(thank you, infidels.org). Children are not REQUIRED to say the pledge, but it is highly looked down upon. When i was in 5th grade(i remember, it was only 8 years ago) i refused to say "under god" in my pledge. I had a fundie teacher who would send me out into the hall everyday b/c i wouldn't say it in it's entirety. now THAT is illegal, but at that age, i didn't know that.
I'm trying my hardest not to take this into a religous debate. I am not suprised at all at how people reacted to this. not one tiny bit. i'm not suprised that he got death threats from "loving christians" and "americans." I was sorta disturbed, but not suprised. I am not suprised at some of the remarks and responces that some theist on here have made. i am also not too suprised when theists said that it was a good idea to back back to how it was pre-mccarthyism.
I don't see how some peoples arguments could be, "it's just easier to leave it in." if you use that same train of thought, it would have also been easier for King to just leave the civil rights laws as they were(non-existant that is). That's what brings on change to something that is wrong, people standing up and not just saying, "it'd be easier to just let it go by and not make a big stink about it."
Being and 18 year-old AND an Atheist, most people don't give two shits about what i think. I've learned to accept this living in the bible-belt. The supreme court will most likely never take anything religious that is already there out. and with our supreme jack-ass, i mean leader, Bush, and his comments like the ones he made about having only christian judges in office, there will probably be more religion backed by the gov't.
I think that anything religoius should not be involed in anything gov't. assuming a poly-theistic religion will never be widely recognized again, i say this. Once the gov't is run by a religion, it become a totalitarian society. a society led by god, with soldiers willing to do stupid shit to uphold his "glory." With millions of sheep that will do whatever he says, or whatever his "officers" say. Oh wait, that is our government.
peace,
-Chris
mxyzptlk@attbi.com
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From: Jacksonville
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]
But as a counterpoint, as a Christian tax payer, shouldn't I have a right to see some of my tax money going to at least assist (if not promote) religion?
[B]
But as a counterpoint, as a Christian tax payer, shouldn't I have a right to see some of my tax money going to at least assist (if not promote) religion?
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From: Redlands
Maybe this is a more appropriate example - if you see someone ogling your car, doesn't it feel better when they tell you so, instead of just smiling and moving on? I would imagine so... So it is with God.
I can totally see where you're coming from, looking from the outside, in. However, as a non-Christian, it is honestly hard for you to see what we feel, as I can only imagine (to a point) what you feel. I wasn't always a Christian - I, like many, found that the hypocrisy was such a turnoff. It wasn't until I realized that Christianity is about ME and God, not everyone else, that I found that things made sense, and that what everyone else does and is doesn't affect me or my eternal destination.
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From: Signal Hill, SoCal
Ok, enough banter, here is an actual quote from the times.
When President Eisenhower signed the "under God" into the Pledge in 1954 he announced:
"In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future. From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and every rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."
That sounds a whole lot like swearing to the Christian God being enforced by the the government to me.
When President Eisenhower signed the "under God" into the Pledge in 1954 he announced:
"In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future. From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and every rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."
That sounds a whole lot like swearing to the Christian God being enforced by the the government to me.
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From: Signal Hill, SoCal
Originally posted by JonBoy
It wasn't until I realized that Christianity is about ME and God, not everyone else, that I found that things made sense, and that what everyone else does and is doesn't affect me or my eternal destination.
It wasn't until I realized that Christianity is about ME and God, not everyone else, that I found that things made sense, and that what everyone else does and is doesn't affect me or my eternal destination.