For kicks superfoot wallace had the lee man but not for every type bruce had him with the front and twisting. Check him out on the net. Dude could comb your hair with his foot.

 

Precisely. Therefore jyeung528, I think its difficult to find someone that will surpass him mentally. Every aspiring martial artist in the 21st century has bruce lee's philosophy and ideas as a guideline. To surpass him mentally, someone would have to re-invent and turn the martial arts community upside. Since Bruce's ideals were to simplify, cross-train and use unorthodox methods to gain maximum efficiency (he even studied muscle fibre twitch etc), I don't think anybody is going to match his contribution anytime soon...if indeed...ever.

exceltoexcel: I am familiar with Bill "superfoot" Wallace, and as great of a fighter as he was, I believe Bruce kicked faster, and most definitely had a whole lot more power behind his kicks. Bill only had the use of his left leg, so Bruce probably had more techniques at his disposal also. But 'superfoot' was indeed an impressive martial artist.

 

Neo is The One...

 

I'm not sure. It wouldv'e been nice for someone to get some speed readings.


I don't belive that bruce had a whole lot more power behind his kicks. I think they both had more than enough power behind thier kicks that whatever difference it would be only relational to the size of the two.

Power's a tough thing to measure by looking at a video.

Superfoot and bruce could easily break more than 4 boards and that in my mind is enough to prove devistating power. I think 4 is equivalent to the power need to break a femure. You could argue that a big body builder had more strenght than both of them however speed is part of the equation. I think Superfoot had the bigger legs and I think his cresent/hook and side kicks would be faster. Its said that Bruce learned his side kicks from TKD master Jhoon Rhee. However and this might not be accurate, Jhoon Rhee, was reported to be beaten up in his parking lot on two seperate occations when he attempted to excute a side kick in street clothes, fell and hit his head on the pavement and was knocked out. Let's remember in street fighting there is no such thing a a high kick!

Keep in mind that Bruce would "probably" be the better fighter . I say probably because I'm a firm beliver that anyone can beat anyone on any given day. Even Steven Hawking had a shot . Bruces ability to adapt as well as his increadible hand speed would dwarf superfoot.

Bruce was a jack of all trades and a master of none (well except his own).. Though some masters wish they had his skills. His style was a hodgepoge of many styles, he was adaptable. He could shange up which is what made him the man. Keep in mind that Bruce lost MANY MANY fights. He is by no means the master of the martial arts but he was definitely in the top 1%. Some people argue that he was nothing more than an ego manic fighter, however, no one can deny his contributions to marital arts.

I never hear of anyone in Jeet Kune Do taking home major events. I would prefer to see more kids take this form than any other that I know of. It incorporates so much. I was lucky that i had an instructor that taught both TKD and Modren Arnis(Remy Presas ). Modern Arnis follows some of the same priciples. Take the best of the various Martial Arts and sew them together. If you ever met Remy, you would've been shocked. He had a beer belly but moved like the wind. Very efficent style. Back to my point most kids are taking just TKD. I was too small for straight line power, hell I still am. I needed to be able to move out of the way then generate that straight line power. I would place my kid in a circular MA first or JKD.

For the record frank dukes record in bloodsport was real, dude really did exist there is an old article from him in Black Belt magazine. I belive it was the early 80 or 70's. Does anyone have any speed readings on Bruces kicks?

 

What you mean by "surpassing him mentally" is your own definition of the phrase. You don't have to "re-invent or turn the martial arts community upside" in order to surpass him mentally.

All I am saying is that someone will have the mental and physical capability to be a better, overall fighter. Bruce Lee is still the man and probably will be for a long time.

 

Actually, I believe that Bruce had more penetrative power...he could break 5 suspended boards with one thrust of his leg. Thats incredibly difficult to do, hell breaking 4 boards that are held in place is hard enough...but imagine the penetrative power required to break boards dangling in front of you. I'm sure if Bill Wallace was capable of performing such a feat, we definitely would have heard about it.

Another demonstration of his power, was Bruce's specially modified heavybag, which weighed in at around 280lbs(127kg). Alledgedly, according to US/World Karate champions Bob Wall and Chuck Norris, he could kick the bag and bring it up to the ceiling. I actually have seen video footage of him repeating that feat, but on a smaller bag, probably a 120lb one I'm guessing. However the bag did fly up to the ceiling...that much I saw.

As for Bruce losing many fights, do you have a source on this? There have been many interviews by students and friends/acquaintances and barely any accounts of him even getting into fights in his later years, let alone losing them. If you were talking about his teenage days, yes he did lose fights...but he was hardly the fighter he would become in his mid 20's to early 30's. When he was younger, possibly around 16 or 18 Bruce actually won an All-Schools Boxing tournament, defeating the larger English champion (3 years running) whilst applying techniques he had learnt in Wing Chun. Mind you, he had only been training in Wing Chun for a short period of time when that took place.

I've never heard that story about Jhoon Rhee losing a fight in a parking lot due to such circumstances. I also very much doubt that Rhee taught Bruce his side-kick, I believe it was his own development, and was if anything adopted from a 'hard' style of karate. TKD's kicks in general lack power in their application, as compared to say a Muay Thai kick or a Kyokushin/Shotokan Karate kick. Thats not to say all individual TKD artists can't kick hard however.

As for Jeet Kune Do, I think its basic philosophy is all around us, thanks to Bruce's legacy. Sure there are specialised techniques JKD incorporates, notably they push the 'strong side forward' ideal (as opposed to an orthodox boxing stance), they also strongly advocate the use of the lead leg kick (to the shin/knee/groin), finger jabs to the eyes, and leading jabs with power (again as opposed to the boxing jab, which looks to open up defenses and probe for distancing). Things like Mixed Martial Arts events (UFC, PrideFC, Shooto, Pancrase, King of the Cafe) etc are that exact philosophy of mixing up, adapting and using what works. Conforming to one style was something Bruce was strictly against, and a lot of traditionalists had a big problem with that, in fact some of them still do...32 years on.

I see Bill Wallace as a great fighter, one of the best of his time actually...although his 'win' over Blinky Rodriquez was a controversial one at best. However I see him as being on the level as such other fighters like Bob Wall, Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis. And these fighters publicly admit that Bruce could make them look like fools in sparring sessions, and most definitely in a real fight. Chuck Norris' actual comment was that he "might" beat Bruce in a ring fight with set rules, however in a street fight he'd be dead meat.

As for speed tests, I believe Chuck once again tested Bruce's reaction speed and handspeed...but not his footspeed, so its left to our own speculation really. I do know of instances where Bruce's speed was tested in other forms, and they're almost inhuman feats to say the least. About Frank Dux I actually heard that a lot of his 'claims' have never been proved, especially his 'world records'...I think there was an article written somewhere which proved that he falsely claimed many things that never occurred...and never physically proved his abilities.

True, it is my own definition...you don't necessarily have to 're-invent or turn the martial arts community upside down' to beat him mentally, but one would think you would...if you really had something new to bring to the table, so to speak. I was merely giving an example, but not necessarily restricting the term to the above.

Having the 'mental capability' to be better than him is something we'll never be able to gauge anyway...so its a moot point. I think if you can find someone that works harder than him, that'll be the underlying factor in 'surpassing' him overall.

 

exceltoexcel - frank dukes was a fraud, do a google on him, there was a book written called "stolen valor" or something like that, it revealed that he was a shonk and crushed a lot of nuthuggers who thought he was the "real deal".
there is only one and that man is "FEDOR EMELIANENKO" - PRIDE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION, the best MMA fighter in the world today.
it's so unfortunate that there are still so many traditional martial artists out there who refuse to embrace cross training and can't figure out why that their "horse stance" doesn't work in the real world.

 

Agreed cayenneguy, except on Fedor...best "HEAVYWEIGHT" MMA fighter in the world, you left that part out. There are others just as skilled, if not moreso in the lower weightclasses imo

 

yea i dunno about more skilled, the guy was an olympic level judoka, national sambo champion, superb hand skills, one of the best chins in mma, unbelievable cardio, doesn't get frustrated when he fights...he's the entire package.
plus he's fought only top level guys, look at the list of fighters he's gone against and there is not one tomato can at all.

 

I tend to see a trend, whereupon lighter fighters are just more technically gifted than their heavier counterparts. There are definitely a lot of very skilled individuals out there in the MMA arena, so calling Fedor the outright best MMA fighter in the world is a very big call to make. I'm sure cayenneguy didnt necessarily mean it in that way though. But even if he did, its his opinion and I can respect that.

Fedor's chin hasn't really been tested too much if i recall, the only big shot I remember him taking is from Kazuyuki Fujita, and he was visibly wobbled quite badly, although he did the smart thing and clinched until he recovered. I'd hate to see what would have happened had he worn a shot from an actual striker, say Mirko Cro-Cop.