War with Russia Georgia
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by gotrice02,Aug 11 2008, 09:55 AM
That wasnt the only flaw, but it certainly was one of them. American/allied forces steadily beat the piss out of German strongholds all along the western front (it took some time). The German war machine was just spread out too wide for too long (N. Africa, etc). The Roman empire made this same folly and so did Alexander (Greeks). As to Hitler taking over the world, this would have been geographically impossible. As an example, the technology at the time didn't even give Germany striking distance to the U.S. mainland.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,581
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SheDrivesIt,Aug 12 2008, 06:45 AM
Amazing. All this discussion started by a spammer.
The way I see it, the whole Georgia/Russia thing is not our problem.
The way I see it, the whole Georgia/Russia thing is not our problem.
If Bush tries to join this one I will officially stop supporting him. This is not our problem. I am tired of us holding hands with all the pussies that can't defend themselves. Until someone MAKES it our problem, we NEED to stay out.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by gotrice02,Aug 12 2008, 03:58 AM
This is mostly right, the Americans really did the hard work and pressed the western front hard enough to crush Germany. As for the Russians, they just took awhile to get their sh1t together. They had huge resources, but bad decision making early in the war. Stalingrad was definately a turning point, but during the Stalingrad conflict, the Russians were already starting to drive the Germans back. Enemy at the Gates is a great movie....people tend to forget that over 50 million Russians died as as result of the war.
The U.S. didn't invade the European mainland until June of 1944, over a year after Field Marshall Von Paulus' armies at Stalingrad had been obliterated by Soviet forces. This was followed by the biggest tank engagement in history at Kursk in July and August of 1943, where the main body of German armour was taken out of commission by the Russians. By the time Americans were landing on Omaha Beach, the Soviet forces had retaken all of their homeland (retaking Byelrussia at the time of the Normandy invasion), and were advancing through Poland while the U.S. was still bogged down in the hedgerows of Normandy. They were in Germany (East Prussia) before the U.S crossed the Rhine into Germany at Remagen on 7 March, 1945.
In my universe, one needn't belittle the sacrice and valour of the Soviet Union to recognize the U.S. contribution from 1942 on. 20 million Soviet civilians were killed in the war, and millions of their soldiers were killed resisting the German invasion, mostly prior to the U.S. sending any substantial forces into combat in Europe. Not to mention the contributions of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the forces in exile and resistance in many European countries, while America sat on its ass for the first couple of years of the war.
But then, in the parallel universe where some here abide, the U.S. did it all.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,581
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by zeiss,Aug 12 2008, 08:47 AM
Clearly some people in this thread are living in a parallel universe where America joined in the struggle against Germany much earlier, and played a much larger role in the defeat of Hitler. In the universe where I live, the U.S. didn't declare war on Germany until after Germany declared war on the U.S. in December 1941, after WWII had been going on for two years. By the time the U.S. entered the war in my universe, the Soviet counter-offensive to the German invasion was already well on its way, with victories in the offensives around Moscow and Kharkov that began to throw back the German invasion before Pearl Harbour.
The U.S. didn't invade the European mainland until June of 1944, over a year after Field Marshall Von Paulus' armies at Stalingrad had been obliterated by Soviet forces. This was followed by the biggest tank engagement in history at Kursk in July and August of 1943, where the main body of German armour was taken out of commission by the Russians. By the time Americans were landing on Omaha Beach, the Soviet forces had retaken all of their homeland (retaking Byelrussia at the time of the Normandy invasion), and were advancing through Poland while the U.S. was still bogged down in the hedgerows of Normandy. They were in Germany (East Prussia) before the U.S crossed the Rhine into Germany at Remagen on 7 March, 1945.
In my universe, one needn't belittle the sacrice and valour of the Soviet Union to recognize the U.S. contribution from 1942 on. 20 million Soviet civilians were killed in the war, and millions of their soldiers were killed resisting the German invasion, mostly prior to the U.S. sending any substantial forces into combat in Europe. Not to mention the contributions of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the forces in exile and resistance in many European countries, while America sat on its ass for the first couple of years of the war.
But then, in the parallel universe where some here abide, the U.S. did it all.
The U.S. didn't invade the European mainland until June of 1944, over a year after Field Marshall Von Paulus' armies at Stalingrad had been obliterated by Soviet forces. This was followed by the biggest tank engagement in history at Kursk in July and August of 1943, where the main body of German armour was taken out of commission by the Russians. By the time Americans were landing on Omaha Beach, the Soviet forces had retaken all of their homeland (retaking Byelrussia at the time of the Normandy invasion), and were advancing through Poland while the U.S. was still bogged down in the hedgerows of Normandy. They were in Germany (East Prussia) before the U.S crossed the Rhine into Germany at Remagen on 7 March, 1945.
In my universe, one needn't belittle the sacrice and valour of the Soviet Union to recognize the U.S. contribution from 1942 on. 20 million Soviet civilians were killed in the war, and millions of their soldiers were killed resisting the German invasion, mostly prior to the U.S. sending any substantial forces into combat in Europe. Not to mention the contributions of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the forces in exile and resistance in many European countries, while America sat on its ass for the first couple of years of the war.
But then, in the parallel universe where some here abide, the U.S. did it all.
thats what we learned a few years ago... maybe some of these guys are older and the history teachers doctored the info to make it sound more like "we are the only reason all these ungrateful bastards aren't dead or a part of germany" I still think we should've stayed away, let them deal with their problems and then capitalize financially after everyone else is ruined financially. 
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
So, you are saying that from the point of view of the present, it would have been better to let Hitler's genocidal regime murder millions of civilians in death camps so that the U.S. could capitalize financially?
With the exception of Switzerland and Sweden, the U.S. was the only major industrialized democracy not to join the struggle against Fascism at the war's beginning. I'm not sure if this is a record to be proud of.
With the exception of Switzerland and Sweden, the U.S. was the only major industrialized democracy not to join the struggle against Fascism at the war's beginning. I'm not sure if this is a record to be proud of.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,581
Likes: 0
It wasn't our problem... Plain and simple. Where the hell was canada when it was the america's problem? you didn't help cause it wasn't your problem. Nuff said. same reason we shouldn't help in MOST of the problems in the world, until its our problem, we shouldn't help. Have you seen the national debt here in the united states for saving all kinds of people and fighting all kinds of wars that we didn't have to??? We have been helping and have since created and are still creating a serious debt.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,369
Likes: 0
From: Renton, WA
Originally Posted by Saki GT,Aug 12 2008, 04:41 AM
There are a lot of concerned rednecks in America today - they want to make sure there will still be Nascar races even though Russia is invading.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_russia_georgia_warn
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,581
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by zeiss,Aug 12 2008, 10:02 AM
Are you seriously equating your balance of payments problem because of your ill-advised venture in Iraq (along with disastrous economic policies by your Bush administration -- the Iraq venture is only one small part of the reason for your accumulated deficit) with WWII? And how would you have proposed staying out of WWII, it not being your business? Surrender unconditionally to the Japanese after Pearl Harbour? And to Germany when it declared war on you just after?
Perhaps you should pay a little more attention to history, and a little less attention to the testosterone coursing through your veins. We weren't with you during the Revolutionary War or the War of 1812 -- you invaded us both times (and at the end of the Civil War) and got your butts kicked. Canada was with you in Kosovo, Bosnia, and now Afghanistan. We weren't with you in Vietnam, Panama, Grenada and Iraq because we thought that you were wrong to be there. (I'm assuming you aren't saying that the Allies were wrong to oppose Hitler). On the other hand, you weren't with us in South Africa, the first three years of WWI, or the first two of WWII. You were wrong about WWII, but finally came to your senses.
Perhaps you should pay a little more attention to history, and a little less attention to the testosterone coursing through your veins. We weren't with you during the Revolutionary War or the War of 1812 -- you invaded us both times (and at the end of the Civil War) and got your butts kicked. Canada was with you in Kosovo, Bosnia, and now Afghanistan. We weren't with you in Vietnam, Panama, Grenada and Iraq because we thought that you were wrong to be there. (I'm assuming you aren't saying that the Allies were wrong to oppose Hitler). On the other hand, you weren't with us in South Africa, the first three years of WWI, or the first two of WWII. You were wrong about WWII, but finally came to your senses.
p.s. you're welcome
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by zeiss,Aug 12 2008, 08:47 AM
But then, in the parallel universe where some here abide, the U.S. did it all.
We didn't sit on our ass for two years. The Germans were dug in good in Western Europe. Any invasion would have to come by sea. Not the same situation as the Russians. Its comparing apples and oranges.
But true the Russians sacrificed more than any people in that war.