For out of the box target shooting I would take the Kimber. I had a Kimber Gold Match and it was an awesome pistol. Very finiky about the type of ammo. Since it's a .45 it points beautifully and the grip is nice especially for those with full size/large hands.

For personal defense or concealed carry I would take a Glock .357 SIG. 9mm is a toy unless you carry a pre-ban clip (since you have to empty the whole thing to stop someone who is drugged up). In the house a shot gun rules. Nothing like the sound of one when you rack a round. That should scare all but the most stupid criminals. A versatile gun is a .40/.357 SIG. Nice shooting gun with a good feel. Be safe and good luck.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by duffy
[B]For out of the box target shooting I would take the Kimber. I had a Kimber Gold Match and it was an awesome pistol.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brett
[B]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RodneyK
[B]Personally, I have never walked around fearing I was suddenly going to be shot by some lunatic.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brett
[B]I'd hate to see what would happen if an invading army tried to take over an American city.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by le car
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Brett
[b]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Brett
Seems to me that understanding the cause would prevent it in the future. Ban the gun and they just choose a different weapon and you have the same outcome. "Ban the baseball bat!" "Ban the pointed stick!"

These things are not black and white. But the gun is definite more towards the black side. No one is suggesting that by removing the gun we remove violence. What I'm suggesting is that the gun is a mass multiplier of violence. If someone decides to be violent and has a gun they can kill many people in a short period of time (Martin Bryant of Tasmania Australia hold the record BTW) and are much harder to stop. If that same person only has access to a pointy stick.......

I think that's the point. To see a gun here is a fascination. To see a gun in the US is nothing. The media coming out of the US would have us believe you all have a range of guns to match different attire (I find the PPK goes so much better with this strapless cocktail number). Your movies suggest that on average you have one or two drive bys a day, and that in any given encounter there are between 1000 and 2000 rounds discharged. I know this is all fiction, but it still leads to desensitisation. The difference these days is we all live much closer together, and the resources aren't spread around very evenly (I'm not promoting Socialism BTW). As a result there is more friction, more aggression, and more violence. If I have to live in a world like this I'd prefer it if the aggressors had pointy sticks.

Spoken like a true American. Owning a gun won't stop you getting shot. If someone threatens you with a gun you're more likely to get shot if you reach for your gun than if you give them your wallet. And more victims of domestic gun violence are the occupants rather than the intruder.

Maybe you're right. If everyone else has guns you better too. But don't complain when everyone has a gun, everyone is desensitized, and everyone with less to lose than you is sneaking up behind you.

 

Yep, you're wrong.

We've always had much tighter gun laws than you guys, but it was still possible to own a rifle if you had a license (easy to get).

The lounge room of my parents family home had guns on display around the walls (a bizarre concept to a 21st century Australian). A Uberti black powder revolver rifle, a Mauser, a Musket replica and martini action rifle (don't know the make). I had a 270 rifle with a scope and a russian made target 22 and my father had an under/over 12 guage/303. Ahh, childhood memories.

During the 80's and 90's we saw an escalation of gun related violence. Not sure of the cause, but the desensitisation mentioned above probably has much to do with it (thanks Lethal Weapon - wait, Mel Gibson is Australian). Make sure you all see the movie Chopper to see how violence is done Australian style.

It all came to head when in 1996 a disturbed young man named Martin Bryant went on a rampage in Port Arthur Tasmania. He single handedly killed 24 people before being apprehended.I belive this is a record (not to be proud of) for a lone gunman. This was the turning point in our gun laws. Now our laws are much tighter, and people like Martin Bryant would have a much harder time getting hold of the sort of weaponry he used.

I can imagine the headlines today. "24 people poked with a sharp stick"

 

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html


[Edited by Brett on 05-16-2001 at 06:09 PM]

 

Interesting reading, but I'm not sure I want to live in a state where my freedom is protected by fear of the gun.